Kells Archaeological & Historical Society
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ANNIE FINNEGAN (born 1928) Annie was born and reared in |
ANNIE FINNEGAN
Interview
with ANNIE FINNEGAN (1) Maudlin St, Kells, Co. Meath. Ireland DC:
Hello this is Danny Cusack on Thursday 21 September 2010
here at Maudlin St Kells talking to Annie Finnegan. We
might just go back to the beginning and say a little
about your background. AF:
Well, I grew up in DC:
Could you just say a bit more about the Finnegans? AF:
The Finnegans came from Cruicetown. They had a school
and there was music on that side too
and
there was a John Finnegan in it and he was a hunchback.
He played the violin and he used give violin classes. He
used go around the house dos and play. And there was
another in it that put on poor scholars for the church.
There was a piece on all this in the Chronicle
in the 30s
I dont remember what year,
perhaps 1936 or 37. I remember my mother saying
thats all your school days [?], your fathers.
It seems that during the troubled times there was some
upheaval there and they died out of it. Some of them got
married. And one that married this lassie
I
cant remember her name
they couldnt
find the deeds of the house. And they knew that they were
in the crop of cart wheel and it was in the house
somewhere but they couldnt find it. There was great
upheaval about it. During the troubled times my
father being a direct descendant used to go out and beat
all the beasts and that off the land, to take control.
But then a curfew came and he was put from doing it so
that he never got it back. It was in foreign hands, we
never owned the land or anything. And theres some
connection with a family up in Slane. One woman there is
up in it, I used to hear my mother talking about it. And
she was too a direct descendant of the Finnegans.
But I think theres a part of that school there yet.
I was out there about 14-15 years ago and there were just
remains there. It was the best kept place around Meath I
believe in those times. Old Charlie Smiths place
hed be a first cousin of my fathers
its just opposite the old school. I think
its on the main road coming out of Kells heading up
for Kilmainhamwood. I think its on the left-hand
side now as far as I can remember. DC:
Theres still Finnegans, not so
much in Cruicetown as in the next towmland, Altmush
AF: There must be a connection there you see. There was probably a breakaway there From Ingrams [?] too there were splits in the family DC:
When did the first Finnegan come from Cruicetown to
Kells? AF:
That Im not sure of. But there was a fellow, a
bookie, here once - hes a descendant of our
crowd - he came in from Cruicetown. He was in Johnny
Maguires crowd would be one of the oldest race of
people in Kells
the Rourkes
there was an
awful lot of them around. I dont think they ever
emigrated in those later years. They were into killing
meat
cows and that
and they used to sell it
out to the poor. Now theres a Rourke family in DC:
Thats when the electricity came in
AF:
Yes. There was gas in the house above because he was the
gas manager and hed put the gas into it. The pipes
were in it under the stairs. My mother used to have the
gas light for him there up till it was finished. Down
where those three houses are now built in the past year
there was two farms there. There was a Sally Fairchild,
when married she was Sally Smith. And she was a
character. She lived there and she had a horrid tongue in
her head, I remember as a child. And shed open her
two little gates and the people from the country
out Kilbeg and Cruicetown on theyd come in
to the fairs. There was an awful lot of fairs in
the town in my young days. And theyd be coming up,
the ponies and the cattle and all and the fairs would be
held in the streets. Sally would have to open up,
thats how she survived. She would get 3ds and
6ds for keeping the cattle up. She knew my great
grandmother, Bessie Liscoe. She used to come in with the
Tevlins of Horath to get educated. The trap would
be put up in Sallys garden and often shed
tell my mother: I knew your aunt. Theyd
end up with Sally youd see. So next door then there
was quite a few men employed there in the gasworks. And
there was a family of Norriss in it. The father was
stoker and he lived theres two doors in that
house next to me now the second door down with the
three steps up to it, the Norriss lived there. One
big big massive room. And it was just filled with big
beds. Nine of a family were in it. There were quite a few
boys in it, and girls. There was Paddy I knew him
he was attached to the gas works and youd
see him with the yoke on his shoulder. Maggie was there,
she was a character. She was 100 years of age when she
died and she was in possession of all her faculties. She
neither wore glasses nor had she a pain or ache. She
drank a baby power every day and Gods honest truth
it kept her going. I used to go up to them a lot of times
and shed I got an awful lot of history from
her too. She could tell me all the different families
that were in the town. She lived down there beside Sally
Fairchild and of course Sally was an awful character. As
a child I used to be in and out to Sally and shed
say [to her son]: Now if anyone of these men asks
you whose son you are tell them your George Smiths
son (that was her husband). Make sure to tell
them youre George Smiths son. So
theyd come in from around the country: Now,
whose son are you. Im George
Smiths. Maggie said she had an awful
lad made out of him. And he would come out crying then
the mother would be vexed with him he would
come out crying to Sally. And says she: Go out and
tell them your mother you wanted is washing and Sally is
going to wash the clothes for him[?] And hed
be banging on the door, she said: Mum, mum, let me
on. Im leaving home. I want my washing.
It was unbelievable the things shed would tell me
about him. That was old old Maudlin of course. Then next
to that there was another yard owned by the Ryans
of Headfort. That crowd all came from DC:
Are you saying that people were buried where the road is? AF:
Thats right. The bodies were thrown up and they had
the power to do it. It was British control, you
see. The Reformation days the Catholics were downgraded.
And the poor, it was to hell or to DC:
The Headforts owned all of Kells at one time, didnt
they? AF:
Oh they did, they did. They could do what they
like. Where our church is built now it seemingly was
owned by the Headforts. And seemingly the Church was well
in with the Headforts and they managed to be allowed
build the church. They owned the church and they owned
the priests house it was a different house
then of course. During the [?] War one of the Headforts
was at the war. This other man was working with the
Headforts and was in the war with him and saved his life.
Dempsey was his name. For his reward he gave him the
grant of the land where the convent is now. He also
bought where the town hall is now and Dempsey lived there
in a three-storey thatched house. And he had one daughter
Catherine Dempsey. And the father died and she was
there alone with the housekeeper. And seemingly there was
a big sideboard inside in the dining-room. You could see
it I believe when youd be passing up and down.
There were very valuable hens and chickens pure gold
[painted?] on it. They were Catholics you see. And
Catherine was sick, for dying. And she kept asking the
housekeeper
she wanted to see the Catholic
priest. And different people that would go up to the
door, she wouldnt let them in. That went on so the
next thing was there was one woman that came to the door
and got in and Catherine said: Get the priest to
come, tell him I want him. The messages [had been]
going out from her but they never got to the priest. But
this particular woman did manage to get to the priest. So
he came into her [Catherine] and she wanted to will that
land that you see today for schools for the poor of the
town: the boys school and the girls school.
So that was built with whatever money that the father had
left to her. Otherwise the woman [housekeeper?] would
probably have controlled everything, she had no
connections with the family. Thats the story I
died. Actually it was nun that was telling me that.
Mother [?], she was from Cavan. She was living down
there. She had a whole big book of the history of Kells
she told me. And she said she loaned it to Dr Brannigan
and never got it back. They had a library down there. Its
an awful pity. She was a great historian too. She knew an
awful lot. DC:
Catherine Dempseys name is written above the school
1843. AF:
Thats right. She was an only daughter you see.
Then you have the Spire of Loyd. The son had that built
in honour of his father. The people from the poorhouse of
Kells were buried there. To this day they hold Masses
above there. And that monstrosity was built by Lord
Headfort. Next door to me there was theyre
still there a family of McCabes. Well, their
grandfather, they all worked in Headfort and Id say
they were partly responsible for the building of the wall
around it. They were big big builders. Some of Jack
[McCabes] ancestors were at the building of the
Spire. They were attached to Headfort you see. My mother
and my Aunt Alicia used go up the Spire during the war
and bring a bit of a party with them, sandwiches and
that, during the summer time. Then it was closed up for
years, I think somebody was killed in it some years ago.
So its only in latter years [1991] theyve
done it up. The Protestant Church then is the
Catholic Church originally and theres an
underground passage there that comes out away in a field
in George Armstrongs at Black [?]. It comes out in
one of his fields and I remember Briany my brother and
some of the crowd them times going down there and going
right in the passage way leading into the church. And I
think
does it lead into St Colmcilles House? DC:
Ive heard that version as well. AF:
I was in St Colmcilles House several times.
[Armstrongs: Catholics and Protestants]. I was up in the
three sections the rooms where he slept and
there was a stone bed, but it was stolen out of it. And
there was a stairs in it that collapsed. Then downstairs
theres a little stone seat set in the wall. And
they say that you could get whatever you wished by
sitting in it. Down from Colmcilles House then
theres a narrow lane - it was called DC:
What we call AF:
Thats right. There were four gates in Kells. One
gate at DC:
Roughly where Cross Carrick comes down
AF:
Or was it higher? Im not
too sure
DC:
If it was it wasnt that much higher up
AF:
Yes, I think it was. Then there was an opening here in
Maudlin. I think there were old walls there ... sure they
might be gone by now. DC:
Do you know exactly where the Maudlin Gate was? AF:
At the bottom of Maudlin there, I think, just below
Dunnes, or further, I think there was an opening
over in DC:
Next to Hethertons garage? AF:
Thats right. They were three storeys high and
probably thatched in olden times. DC:
Do you have any memories of when you went to school? AF:
Well, I only went to the convent school. I went to school
with the Higginss over here and my cousins across
the road the McCabes. And then Rosie
McGuinness and Micky. They were tailors. Rosies
still over there, shes a Mrs Roche. And I went with
the Morriss at the top. The father was a barber.
They came in from a town below in Cavan, they were Cavan
people. And Lizzie, Peggy and Christina Morris. There all
gone out of it, a lot of them dead too. And I went to
school with Ethna McGee, her father was a chemist. He was
from down the North of Ireland. Then the McEntees
above thats still there. Quite a few of the
McGraths and the Rourkes. Bridie Rourke,
shed be related to Johnny Maguire. Her father and
Johnnys mother were brother and sister. He was a
painting contractor. And shes still up in that
area. Its a two-storey house built in latter years.
Then there was Crying Mairtín, another brother who lived
on the Circular road. Hed speak: [Mimics his
screeching speech]. I remember him when I was a
young one because I used go round with Peggy Morris who
was also related, her mother was a Rourke. And they had
the barbers shop at the top here. And thats
how he got his name, Crying Mairtín. Hed be a
grand-uncle of Bridie Rourke that lives above in Climber
Hall. And she had a brother a priest, he died there
a few years ago. And of course the Hannons on the
Circular Road too. I went to school with them. DC:
And of course some of those families are still around the
town and some of them not. AF:
Oh, theres an awful lot of them gone out of it.
Then the Farrellys down here. I was just looking at
a picture of Nicky Farrelly the Bomber he
died over in America. There were a lot of Rourkes in
Maudlin, there was an awful lot of them around. Then
there were lanes too. We had the Malthouse Well down
here. They used to go down in olden times. And the men in
the council, they were great men; they used to clean up
the roads and everything and purify the water. The
Malthouse Well, swear to God and if they didnt do
away with it and build a blooming old montrosity of a
house on it. Oh, when I was growing up
the water
in the terrible hot weather
the cans with the
beautiful water
whoever let that go was something
desperate. Im always giving out about it. We spent
our youth going up and down to the Malthouse Well. Lovely
well, terribly well protected by the council
they
were marvellous. And Thady Clarke next door, he had a
beehive and the bees, hed have them outside
just the hedge between him and the path down to the well.
Its desperate to think of it. And then you have
Blackwater House. That was just across the field there.
It was Canon Williams that built that. His relations are
still out Carlanstown way. He was a Protestant minister
and put the opening in it as you see it today. He died
and its a haunted house thats in it.
Its well known. That Micky Farrelly I was telling
you about, his father was reared up on Maudlin Road, he
was reared with my mother. He used to tell me himself.
Hed come up with another friend that lived on
Maudlin Road. They were coming up one day from across the
fields and there was a big black dog outside the red
gate, the second gate. Well, this big black dog was seen
time and time again. And Micky said to the man that
theyd better not go up that way with the big black
dog there; so they went across Hopkins field and
away home. Its still haunted in it. Now
recently
I nursed Mrs Brady here for a a short
period
and she passed away recently. Now one of
the Rourkes [Joe]
his mother-in-law was in
here with me
she was at school with me, she was
brought up in the orphanage
her mother died when
she was young; so two sisters and herself were put in the
orphanage. A bright little one she was Nan. And
her daughter (Marie) is married to a Rourke [Joe] from
Maudlin. Their father came from out our country
[Cruicetown] and he was an electrician I think. Man that
went hard on the drink, and sixteen of a family. She
[Marie] was here with me and she says I must tell you
what happened the weekend. He [Joe] was below
in the house
this only happened a couple of years
ago
and she was on the ground floor, to the left
was the library
. And I think he [Joe] was in there
.. and 12 oclock struck and he commenced to bless
himself and he was just behind the chair where Mrs Brady
used to sit. And the next thing was as he sat to say the
Angelus he got a [chook?] in his coat. And he went around
the [chook?] and he started pulling the coat like this.
And he kept looking round and praying that the [chook?]
would stop. And the hair was standing on his head. I [ran
into Marie Rourke] on the street later and asked her if
it was true and she said, yes, I went down to bring [Joe]
home for his dinner in the van and when I went down he
was outside at the door waiting and as white as a sheet.
And he says: In the name of God, get out of here
quick. He nearly passed out. That actually
happened. It is a haunted place, no doubt about that. And
I often think of the fellow whos in it now. He owns
the coal yard beyond at the railway. I dont know
his name. The black dog at Bradys red gate.
The gate was painted red in my young days. The New Line
going out to Mullaghea, that wasnt there. No road
there, only fields. The road went up the back
there was a cherry orchard in my young days up at the top
of the hill there into the right. The Monaghans owned it.
Thats where wed spend our Sundays with our
mothers and fathers long ago to get a big big dollop and
leaf-full of cabbage out of it and seats around the
garden where you could sit and eat the cherries, they
were gorgeous. Life has changed so much you know. And
above at the Square where Spicers is now that was
the Town hall in olden days. Big beautiful speakers
corner with wrought iron front on it. It went on fire and
was burned to the ground. And Parnell spoke there. My
Uncle Joe told me. I remember, Annie,
Parnell, says he, and I a youngster and my
father brought me down on his shoulder and they all
stood around in a semi-circle and listened to Parnell
speaking. Across from there was a three-storey
building where the showroom is now up at the top of the
street. The building was just a wreck in my young days,
we used to play in it. It was owned by a family named
Kiernans and I think they were a rough element.
There was a thing called The Shambles above at the market
yard. There were stalls and if you went to one and not
the other theyd read you several generations. These
Kiernans were attached. Now on the Maudlin side at the
lower end of that building colossal building it
was there was a slaughterhouse. And my mother said
that at night youd hear the activity going on. And
they used to have a man called Dick Aughey, he was blind
from birth. A big man and soft-spoken, and he carried the
beasts on his back round to the different butchers. She
said it was a place youd be scared out of your life
to go up to. On the Carrick St side of the big building
there was a shop and a door. And on the Maudlin side then
there was a front door and in the summer time
there was two sisters in it then, a Mary and [?]. The
Mary one was sitting outside one day and there was a dog
someone from Maudlin Street [top and tied?] the
dog and it came running
Marys door was open,
she was sitting outside getting a bit of sun
The
Maudlin Street door as open as well
and this one
shouted: Mary, did you see me dog?.
Well, all I can tell you, says Mary, is
he went in the Carrick St door and out the Maudlin St
door. Then on the weekends she used collect stout
from the people then. There must have been some kind of
shop of in it. The other sister would be fighting with
the Mary one: How dare you have three dozen stout
of porter under the counter! And Mary would reply:
Mind the carpets, mind the carpets. Mother
also told me that when the meetings used to go on in the
town hall Mary would be there in the square dressed up.
She was scarred. She used to knife fight above in the
market yard, in the Shambles. Oh, she said, they were
violent. Mary was also scarred from knife fighting. But
shed be all done up with jewellery on her and
shed be going around the crowd as the politicians
would be speaking. Shed go: Hear, hear, hear!
Yes, hear, hear, hear!. And shed be
circling around the crowd listening to all the speakers.
The Kiernans and the Keenans a tough
element. Youd be afraid of your life. DC:
You said that Parnell spoke up where
the hall is but theres a memorial down at what they
call the Parnell Park where the little stump of a tree
is, down near the convent. It says he spoke there. But
youre saying that
AF:
Whether he spoke there I dont know but he certainly
spoke at the old Town Hall. My Uncle Joe said that his
father brought him down on his shoulder to listen to
Parnell. I remember that. He lived just a few doors down
in Carrick Street at that time. It was burnt and then
Spicers went in. They should have controlled the building
again, they should have re-built. It was shocking what
went to waste in Kells
DC:
Before proper town planning
AF:
Oh, desperate
desperate. And our church, I often
look at the church. The Catholics [? ? ?].
And Colmcilles House
did you see the seat in
the wall? They say you get your wish in it. I dont
know whether I sat in it now. DC:
And Dalys Garage was here at one time was it? AF:
Yes, next door. That was the stoking are for the gas
works long ago. It used to be the bellows would be going,
and the fire would be going. And old Willie Daly bought
in when it went down in the 30s. He got money from
an uncle of his in Australia. Id say he should have
sent the money back. It belonged to the parishioners in
Australia where his uncle lived. But sure he was an
alcoholic and he drank and drank. They lived below Oakley
Park on the road out to Moynalty in a big house with the
gable end to the road, a big beautiful house. And Rowleys
of the Dogs, did you ever hear of that place? It was a
big orchard. Protestants owned it and Dalys was
across the road from it. Briany and the lads used to go
down with [Cherry?] and they had a big
orchard. Rowleys of the Digs, its a big estate and
theres dogs up on the entrance gates as you go in.
and theres no tongues in the dogs. And the fellow
who designed them forgot to put tongues in them and he
committed suicide. DC:
Your brother ran a printery, did he? AF:
It was owned by Frank Smyth now, an uncle-in-law of
[Jimmy Finnegan in England] - Bazzie [?] was his
aunt. Frank died and Briany took it over, thats
right. And Briany ran it until he died there some
years ago. There was no one to take it on then. He
wasnt married and I had no family
Sean became
a priest. Hes into writing books. Thats on
the Finnegan side now. DC:
Fr Sean is your nephew in England
? AF:
Yes, Im expecting him over any day this
month. He has three churches to look after. And he has a
college where he teaches students. And he has a hospital
that he looks after. And hes very musical himself,
hes an organist and a lovely pianist too. He plays
all the old stuff, hes very good
He used to
play at Mass down here
Hed be 47. Hes
in Showel by-the-Sea in west Sussex. Hes big
into history. Hes my old neighbour. Bridgie Smith
is his mother. [Irrelevant chat] Interview
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