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PADDY SUTTON (born 1937) Paddy is native of
Kells and has lived in the town all his life, Has resided
at Oliver Plunkett Road since 1964. . Worked at |
Kells Archaeological & Historical Society
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PADDY SUTTON (born 1937) Paddy is native of
Kells and has lived in the town all his life, Has resided
at Oliver Plunkett Road since 1964. . Worked at |
Paddy & Anne Sutton
DC:
This is Danny Cusack at Paddy,
thanks for talking to us today. Could you please tell me
when you first started working at Tara Shoes? PS:
I started working at Tara Shoes in 1954. I was 16 going
on 17 at the time. I had spent a year in a garage
beforehand but the money was poor. The money was better
in the shoe factory so I started in February in Tara
Shoes and spent 19 years in it – until the day it
closed. DC:
That’s a big part of your working life – 19
years … PS:
Yes, it was certainly.. DC:
So you were probably in your mid-thirties then …? PS:
Yes, I was. DC:
Could you tell us what kind of work you did during your
spell there? PS:
My part of the job was to put the heel piece into the
shoe that is the piece that keeps your shoe stiff
at the back. It was actually called a stiffener. That was
my part in the operation. There were two men before me,
who did their portion of the job, then it moved onto me
and I did my portion of the job. The shoes came on
trolleys and I pushed what I had finished into the next
man, then the operation continued on. DC:
Did you find his work particularly easy or difficult
…? PS:
No, it was quite light work, nothing very heavy in the
shoe factory. DC:
What hours did you work? PS:
At the start it was pretty long. We used to work from 8
to 6, then down through the years being newly managed
they’d take half an hour off this year and a half
hour off the next year so eventually we ere working an
eight hour day. DC:
That leads into the question of wages and working
conditions. Could you comment on them? PS:
The wages weren’t great but they were good for the
time. When I started I was on 16s. Now again because it
was unionised it was great. So every year I got an
increase in my wages until I got up to the normal wage. DC:
Your fellow workers, do any particularly come to mind?
Any impressions you had any incidents during your 19
years there? PS:
A lot of things but they don’t come to mind. One
thing that happened to every young boy starting in it, we
were sent out … we were situated near the train
station… we started as a young boy, we didn’t
know much. But the first thing they sent you for was for
a bucket of steam to the railway station. Now in these
times the station master would know all about this, so he
would leave you standing on the station until the train
came in and he would be over to you with a bucket with a
lid on it and send you back to the shoe factory. So when
you back to the shoe factory there was a big cheer
because everyone knew that you had been set for a bucket
o steam.
The other funny item with the young boys – it
didn’t happen to the ladies – you’d be
sent up to one of the shops in the town for the long
wait. So you’d be left waiting, so you’d
achieved a long wait. These are little items that every
boy went through when he started in the shoe factory. DC:
So they were initiations of a kind … PS:
Initiations, yes … DC:
Knocking a bit of Craic out of the workers, a form of
slagging … PS:
Yes. When you got back you had to put up with the
slagging. You knew that you’d been had, so you could
live with it. DC:
It came with the territory I suppose … PS:
It came with territory. DC:
Your supervisor or immediate employer did you have any
strong memories or impressions of him? PS:
My immediate supervisor in the room I worked in was a man
called John Finnegan. Now, I knew him because everyone in
the shoe factory knew everyone else because we were all
Kells People. My father knew him. My father was in the
shoe factory before me. John Finnegan was OK as a
supervisor. He was fair but strict. You did your job, you
did it well, you got praise for it and that was the end
of it. If you made a mistake then you suffered the
consequences. You’d get what for. DC:
And John Finnegan was a Kells man …? PS:
He was. DC:
I think there was a supervisor called Mick Daly there for
many years … before your time was he? PS:
No, Micky Daly was there too. John Finnegan was the
supervisor, Micky Daly an assistant manger. We had
supervisors in every room. In the men’s room down
the back you had Jimmy Morris, Paddy Murphy, and John
Finnegan. You had Maureen Dunne in the ladies. They were
all the ground supervisors. Then Micky Daly was the man
above that. He was the man who decided what would be done
today, what would be done tomorrow and all that kind of
thing. DC:
Two brothers called the Pickups were actually the head
boys … were they there during your time? PS:
When I went in they were just finishing up their time.
There were too Pickups from DC:
It’s good to get an exact year because I didn’t
have one until now. PS:
Well, it was 29 January 1973. I remember it well because
I was in the union at the time and had a lot to do with
redundancies and stuff like that. DC:
So that date is etched indelibly in your memory for
personal as well as work reasons. Well come to the union
stuff a bit later. Would you say overall it was a good
firm to work for? PS:
It was a decent firm to work for. Now there were ups and
downs like things would be a bit slack and we might be on
three days a week. But when you were on three days a week
they would always give you your three days off – say
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday so you could sign Thursday and
Friday and Saturday too –that doesn’t come into
it nowadays. So we had three days signing and three days
working. The other thing about it was that we had a
scheme where we paid sixpence a week in. Everybody gave
sixpence so you had a free doctor and a free dentist.
That was very good, you know. Then every year we had our
shoe factory dinner dance which was held in the local
Vincent de Paul Hall – and sometimes in the old
courthouse at the start. And as well as that we had a
children’s party with Santa and every child got a
very good present. So all in all it was a decent firm to
work for. DC:
Sounds as though there was a very good social life. PS:
Yes, there was. MS:
And the camaraderie between us in the factory was
brilliant. DC:
So your experience here was generally happy. PS:
Yes, yes. DC:
You mentioned there your role as a trade unionist. Would
you talk a little bit more about the role of the trade
union in the workplace and perhaps your own role? PS:
We were in what was called the Irish Shoe and Leather
Workers Union. The head office was in DC:
Later a TD … PS:
Yes. There wasn’t a big role in the union because it
never reached the stage where we went on strike. But
there was little items … Some of us used be on what
was called piecework where you get so much for each item
of the job done … per dozen shoes at the time. And
of course the management always wanted cut a little bit
here and there and everywhere, same what goes on
nowadays. This is where the union stepped in, to protect
our wages. But I was a stop steward for a few years
… we never had a strike. We always managed to settle
our differences – eventually. It might take a while
but eventually it was settled. DC:
So industrial relations were generally fairly harmonious
and employers fairly cooperative with the trade unions. PS:
Yes, we were all in the trade union; it was part of the
employment that you joined the union. You didn’t
have strikes. DC:
Do you remember any significant changes in work practices
over the year, perhaps involving new technology and so
on? Was there big changes? MS:
One of the biggest changes was when the girls were put
into the closing room. PS:
In the ladies room. It was a bit higgledy piggledy. You
used to have girls running up and down with stuff that
this lady and that lady could sew but eventually then
they spent some money on a conveyor system. So the
conveyor system ran the full length of the room with the
machines each side of it so that if this lady down here
wanted something she put up her hand and the lady at the
far end would put it in the conveyor belt and take it
down to her. That was about the biggest thing really.
Things changed a lot down the years. Now for instance in
what we used to call the press room which was where the
soles used to be put together for your shoe. It came in
as massive big piece of leather and the press room had
the biggest machines. They were the size of this room
here. Big presses: And the leather was out together
… You’d be cutting maybe that depth of leather,
maybe half a foot of leather in the same piece. And the
soles would be cut out of that and the heels would be cut
out of that. And they’d all be put together then as
one unit and then sent up to the room where I worked.
Later on in years all that practice was stopped and we
were buying in stuff from DC:
What type of shoes was manufactured? PS:
Well, we made ladies fashion shoes and we made ladies
summer sandals, ladies high boots, men’s sandals,
ladies sholes.. They were made for another crowd, Sholes,
you’ve heard of em? We made for them. Plus we made
ladies’ fashion shoes for another company called
Norvic Shoes. All in all now we were quite busy you know. DC:
You manufactured a big variety of shoes. PS:
A big variety, yes. And of course the ladies fashion
shoes were made in the summer for the winter. So as the
seasons went on … in the winter we made summer
sandals so that when the summer came along the stuff was
ready for the market. Now when I talk about the market we
had two salesmen that used go around all the shops and
they’d have our samples with them. And that’s
where our main products came from … all the shops: DC:
So the market was much wider than Kells, it was all over
the country … PS:
Yes, yes … MS:
If we were depending on Kells we wouldn’t have got
anywhere! DC:
Sure with the small population. And overseas: PS:
Well, the stuff we made for Sholes, they certainly went
overseas. DC:
You mentioned the railway in terms of the little
incident. How important was the railway overall for the
business and the local economy in Kells. PS:
Absolutely nothing at all. It was never used. All our
stuff went out in vans. We had two vans. And all the
shoes were put in the back of a van. A local man, a chap
named Joe Keyes, was the van driver. He went all over DC:
So the railway didn’t come into the picture much.
Not in that regard anyway. I read somewhere that at its
height the shoe factory employed 240 people, perhaps even
more at one stage, so obviously it was vital to the whole
economy and people … MS:
It was the biggest employer in the town. PS
I don’t know how many names I have here …:
referring to a handwritten list: MS:
But they were all different years you know … PS:
But it was a thriving industry. Unfortunately we fell
foul of DC:
In 1973 PS:
Well, there was decline in shoe factories all over DC:
So you sort of helped one another out in that respect
… How did the economic ups and downs of those years impact on your own life? Were there peaks and troughs? Or was there certain constancy? PS:
Well the only trough was when three days a week came. We
were quite busy … I mean one year when there was a
very warm summer we decided to start work at six in the
morning because … in 1964 that was … it was too
hot … the shoe factory wasn’t made for …
there was no fans, nothing like that … you know
… and we were working under glass in the main room.
So to get away from that the unions and the management
came to agreement that we would start work at six in the
morning and finish at four, which was the warmest part of
the day. But that went on for quite a while do you know.
So that didn’t last for too long because the weather
changed … MS:
We were just after moving into this house and some of our
workers came up to help us clean the house and get it
ready for us to move in. PS:
We got married in the shoe factory. Now both of us were
working there. My mother and father were working in it
and sisters were working in it, so everybody knew
everybody else. Because we all neighbours more or less do
you know? And we’d head off say for the eight
o’clock start in the morning … at that time in
the morning if you were a stranger you’d be asking:
where are all those people going? Because we were all
heading in the one direction. So we all headed for the
shoe factory. We had an hour’s break at one
o’clock. So obviously people didn’t have cars.
You either walked or you had a bicycle. And you had to be
back in time … MS:
And you had to be in on time or your pay would be
docked … PS:
That was very strict. We had a bell in the factory and
Micky Daly – that was the manager – well if you
had your break in the morning – say for ten minutes
- but if the bell went off on time for you to finish,
you daren’t … you had to start … whether
you ‘d had your break or not, you started. They were
very very strict about timing. But I suppose all in all
it was a decent wage at the time. There was nothing
better … MS:
And when we left … when it closed … we got
redundancy. Paddy got around £300 and I got around £200
and we put in the central heating with it at the time! DC:
That was a bonus … MS:
That was a big lot of money to get in
your hand. But when we came into this house first
Paddy’s wages were around £15 and he finished on a
Friday,
and went into Wellmans of a Wednesday and he doubled his
wages. So there was that bit of a gap. PS:
When the shoe factory closed my wages were £19/23s. MS:
And when I went into the factory in 1954 my wages was
14s/11d. From eight o’clock to six o’clock.
That was a lot of hours for 14s/11d and I thought I was
made up. And I gave it to mother and she gave me back
half a crown. PS:
But at the time now it was decent money because,
remember, there as nothing much those years. DC:
People weren’t living extravagantly …but
frugally. And what year did you get married. PS:
We got married in 1961. MS:
And we moved in here 1964. PS:
Now I was very lucky at the time because there was a lot
of people when this redundancy came up … being in
the union we were hoping to … there was a lot of men
in the factory at the time and their jobs were dependent
on the shoe factory for their wages – and we could
see nothing else at the end of the tunnel. So we all got
together and we decided maybe we’d hang on and form
a coop and put all our redundancy money into it. Now
there were a lot of people for it but when it came to the
crunch a lot of women wouldn’t bother because they
were going to be out of work anyway. So they could see
the redundancy money but they couldn’t see further
than that. So at the end of the day the whole thing fell
through. MS:
It was a blessing in disguise though. PS:
It was a blessing in disguise because this factory opened
down the road – Wellman International. And they came
to the shoe factory before it closed actually and they
said that any man there would have a job in Wellmans
– if they wanted it. Some of us took that up because
I went in there the next week, so I was only out for a
week. I spent thirty years in Wellmans. And some of the
men went to the buildings in DC:
It had some ups and downs in that that time. I talked to
Willie Carr extensively about his time in Wellmans.
Willie did a long stint there. PS:
I worked with Willie in it. DC:
Just staying with Tara Shoes for a minute, do you have
any other outstanding memories; perhaps amusing incidents
or even sad incidents down through those years that might
sort of capture the flavour of the place …? PS:
Well, we had a very sad incident in one of the young
women in the closing room, Mary Tormay was her name
– now she got cancer at the time and this went on
for quite a while. So eventually when she did die people
were very down. It was one of the saddest moments in the
shoe factory. Because she was only a young girl starting
her life. MS:
And as well we all gave some money each week to buy a
cross for the chapel. Now that cross is still in the
chapel. When they renovated the chapel they were going to
do away with the cross, but we said: No that was bought.
Now that cost us money we couldn’t afford …but
then that was done. Then we had an argument one time over
windows, opening windows …. [To husband] Do you
remember; something happened to the window, it broke and
the frost was let in or something And we all wanted
to wear our coats and gloves and we all stood in the room
and Sam, came in and he said: No, we couldn’t. We
had to get on and do the work. And we were all standing
together and one woman stood up and said: I don’t
mind, it’s not anymore cold than usual. So that was
it! DC:
End of story … MS:
End of story. We were all but back and made work… PS:
Another union matter … another union matter. But
… MS:
But mostly we stuck together … PS:
But…it’s got a long history now DC:
I can check that, it was soon after the war ended … PS:
It was soon after he war ended
yeh … MS:
Dolly would know that … she worked in the factory
… PS:
Dolly would know that. I remember me father telling me
that the owners – or the managers – at he time
were people called Fenton’s. Now they were the first
people to start the shoe factory. Yes, it’s been
going for a long time but unfortunately –
fortunately for me – it shut at the right time. But
at the time it was good employment for us. It was beside
us, we were inside and we were dry, so … it as good
employment. DC:
And it does seem to have been like one big happy family
… PS:
Oh, it was one big happy family.
I mean OK there were arguments. You have arguments with
neighbours and everyone else. You have people fighting
over … I say this and I did say hat … and I
didn’t say that. But it was one happy family and we
all got together at the dance once a year. I mean it was
fabulous … fabulous DC:
It sounds like a happy experience overall. PS:
It was a happy experience … MS:
And we missed he factory when it closed. DC:
It was good to the town … PS:
It was good to the town, yes … MS:
And it brought a lot of friends, those
that are still alive, including ourselves … DC:
And were there ever any reunions or things like that? MS:
There was one time but it was mostly girls in the office
that organised it. PS:
There was the thing that Liam organised – Liam
Mulvany – for the Heritage Festival. Yes, we had a
thing for the shoe factory and all the shoe factory
members were there and we had some photographs taken of
us. DC:
Liam promised to dig those out and
show them … PS:
Well, I have actually photographs going back to 1930; one
particular one of the room we worked in because the room
where we worked, you had men down one side and men down
the other side and ladies up the top but everything was
electric. But in the photo I have of the 1930s everything
is belt-driven so you have these big belts coming up to
the ceiling and down. And that’s the way it was in
those days. MS:
We have some photographs of the day we were all were
closed … some of the women … DC:
We might come back to that at some stage, take a copy and
put them on the computer … PS:
But for people who wouldn’t understand what went on
in the shoe factory, do you know … we had five rooms
in it. We had the clicking room. Now the clicking room
was for these fellows who worked with very sharp knives.
And they worked with patterns and patterns for the shoes
would be made beforehand and they would put the pattern
on the leather and cut it and shape it. They would go
then to the ladies’ room which was all ladies in it.
It was called the closing room. Now those pieces were all
put together in leather and sewed together. So this is
where your shoe came from. Now it was only a flat piece,
no shape, no nothing on it, just the size and then it
came to the room where I worked which we called the
lasting room. Now the flat piece of the shoe was called
an upper; it’s still an upper if you talk to anyone
in a shoe factory … part of the shoe. Now that came
to our room and that was put on wooden lasts – like
a wooden foot MS:
You can still see them in a shop … DC:
Yes, I’ve seen them. PS:
But this was done on sheets. They were put on little
trays in dozens and pushed on. And everyone done their
little piece and shoved it on to the next guy, so by the
time it got to the end of our room you had a shoe with a
sole and a heel on it. Maybe a bit grotty, but
that’s the way it was, with stuff ticking out of it
and all that. It went to the finishing room then. The
finishing room was there the shoe was cleaned and buffed
up and polished and made ready for the market. And then
it was boxed and labelled. And then the press room was
where the soles and heels were made. That was one side on
its own. … They had their own little piece to add to
it … So that was the whole shoe factory, you know. DC:
Thanks for explaining the whole process. I wouldn’t
have been aware of it myself … all the stages in it
… PS:
Well, you know, if you work in a shoe factory you never
forget those things. They are always in you head because
we used to go into a local man in the town – Jacksie
Kiernan – and if you going to buy a pair of shoes
the first thing is Jacksie was sitting on the chair and
he’d say: “Here’s the sods coming”.
“You can’t sell them this or you cant sell them
that or you cant sell them the other”, he says,
“because they know about shoes”. And this was
Jacksie’s laugh, do you know, Jacksie’s little
funny bit because every one we’d pick up we’d
examine it in detail and if there was something wrong we
didn’t buy it, that was it … because we knew
it, do you know. It was our trade… at the time. MS:
We still do look at them when we’re buying them
… PS:
But when me father was in the shoe factory – he was
in the finishing room – and they had machines for
shaping the heels … machines with knives on them.
But those years … before we were married … when
we were young kids … our father, when he nothing to
do, he’d make our toys for Christmas. He’d make
little Lorries and little vans and he’d shape then
on the wheels in the shoe factory then he’d take
them home and put them altogether, you know. So … it
was a nice place to work. I have no regrets. The only
thing I would regret is that it didn’t carry on but
then I went to a better job – and a better paid job
– until I retired, so … DC:
A lot of other men did too … PS:
A lot did … MS:
Well, it made an awful difference because when we came
into the house the rent was £2/2s. And out of
Paddy’s wages in the factory would have been …
I was sixteen … and I gave up work in 1962. When we
came in here the wages were only £8 something; so we
were paying £2/2s. out of £8. And I was pregnant so I
had to stop work in August for a while – but only
for a while and for a while we found it very hard to pay
… nowadays people are saying the rents are so high
and the mortgages are so high … but when we look
back on ours, £2/2 out of eight would be the equivalent
of what they are paying in mortgages now. You know, by
the time we paid electricity and light fires we had damn
all left out of it to live on. The wages weren’t
terrific … but it was constant. Everybody enjoyed
… the women in the closing room, we had great laughs
… it wasn’t just all working. DC:
Great craic … MS:
Oh, it was great craic … DC:
Anything else there that we should know about? PS:
No, I think I’ve covered it all Danny. I can give
you all this stuff [written material] here if you want to
use it. The End |