Kells Archaeological & Historical Society |
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MAY CAFFREY May has
lived all her life at the same house in |
Interview with May Caffrey |
This is Danny
Cusack Im here in Suffolk Street in Kells on Wednesday 19th
January 2011 Im talking to May Caffrey about her memories
of Kells growing up ...so welcome May and thank you for talking
to us
so would you perhaps start off at the beginning and
tell us briefly a little about your own background
where you
grew up and your childhood and that
.and that kind of thing.
MC:
Well I was born and reared in the house we are living in now in
Suffolk Street and there was just three in the family
three
siblings you know
my mother and father and just three of
us
.I went to school here
Kells at that stage was a far
better town than it is today there was everything in it
..as
I said before two bakeries
..a brewery and I often heard my
father saying there was a Chandlery in Kells and some kind of
leather work as well
.leather alley down in Johns
street
thats where it came from you know
.and
what else
and there was races
Loyd races
.I
dont remember this
.but this you know
.was in
the very beginning
.they came by train to the races and I
often heard my father saying the horses and traps would go over
to the railway to collect the people to bring them down to the
races in Loyd
.I told you we had a cinema in it
..
DC:
Was that just across the road
..
MC:
Yeah down at the end in Suffolk Street
the schools
wasnt amalgamated
you had the convent and primary and
secondary
.then you had the Christian Brothers who were
again...did secondary
and before the amalgamated
.the
tech ..that was the three and then the amalgamated
like
..and the tech and the brothers went in
together
that sort of thing you know
.and thats
how the community school started
but the convent didnt
join in
.they are still.
DC:
Separate
..
MC:
Separate
yeah
..what else I cant
..
DC:
So you lived in this house all your life
..you must know
Kells and
MC:
Which I never did!
It was old nuns down here in the convent
when we were going to school I think there was 36 in it at the
time as far as I can remember
..you had a different nun for
every subject
..you know...they used to put on plays
..they were really good you know
they played
Nemesiss and the Sign of the Cross
.Fatima and
all of them
and all the children took part in this
it
was all just the convent you know
..
DC:
It sounded like a fairly happy schooling by and large
.
MC:
Ah yes you know
there used to be a big fair on the 16th
October
.the cattle end used to be up on the Fair
green and the horses were down in Farrell Street
..the place
would be packed, we would have the day off from school cause you
would have to cross the busy road down here
.we were always
praying that it would be on a Friday or on a Monday so that we
would have a long weekend
.you know all them little things I
remember
.
DC:
Any games you played at school or at home in the street
.
MC:
You could play out in the street in those days
..there
wasnt much traffic
.we played top and hopscotch and
rounders and all that type of thing
and then you
could go and join the tennis
club if you want to and things like that
and playing
camogie
it was a happy childhood really
like you know
the tower up here
you know there is a window
.I
dont know what you would call it
.it wouldnt be
a door either but about six of us was up ...when the church would
have a service on a Sunday in the evening and the gates were open
and went in and got in this window and when we got
inside
.we thought you see
.the level of the ground
but wasnt the bottom of it down
the dept of the footpath outside.
DC:
Big drop altogether.
MC:
Big drop
then when we tried to get out
we
couldnt get out
..there was dead birds there and all
birds droppings and we couldnt get up
.and we were
panicking the five of us
.the sexton I cant remember what
his name was at that time
he had to put down a yard brush
and we had to catch on to that
and he pulled us up he made
a run at us with the brush then and told us if he ever got us in
there again he,we could stay in
.now that was just a
frightening experience
.you know
DC:
It would have been
.You wouldnt forget that in a hurry
MC:
It was very frightening really.
DC:
I bet any other children havent attempted it since
either
MC:
I wouldnt imagine they would, and I remember another day
with a pal of mine
she had a little terrier dog and I have
one and we went to a funeral that was up in the church here
didnt one of the dogs I didnt know which of
them
..didnt they find a human bone
and ran down
the street with it
..I dont know how many ran after
him to get it to bury it back
thats just another
incident
..
DC:
A funny little childhood incident that you wouldnt
forget
yeah
.and you didnt have any problem going
up there to the Church of Ireland in those days
it
wasnt any kind of
.everyone kind of got on..
MC:
Of yeah there was no bigotry or anything like that you
know
out of this house you know my parents went to as many
Protestant funerals as they did as
you know on out
side
no there was no
...he was a nice man
he
was a Mr Carson
..I remember Mr Carson
.and he was a
it was a long time ago since he was there
.but he was
a very nice man and the last one
..not the last one Cannon
Olden
.now he was a nice man
DC:
I remember him
.
MC:
Then there was a man after him
..a very young man
it
was one of his own crowd that
I shouldnt say crowd
but one of his parishioners that got him shifted because
they didnt like him
..I think they have a lady now
DC:
They have from
MC:
I know, sure they will all be looking for ministers of the church
after a while you know
but there is only two down here now
and they are just ran off their feet and when I was young there
was
.and Kells wasnt nearly as big at that stage and
they had three
.and then it went into four
.and then
all of a sudden Kells started to get bigger and bigger and bigger
and then the priests started to get scarcer and scarcer like you
know
.well the two men down their at moment work very
hard
.
DC:
Fathers Byrne and Malone.
Break:
DC:
Can you remember the church when you were a child such as
Communion or Confirmation or weddings or special events there or
any special memories or priests in days gone by.
MC:
Well I remember Fr. McCullen
he was a very strict man and at
the same time I believe he was very good to the
orphans
..the orphanages were there in those days and he was
very good to them
.in other words you couldnt cod or
anything with him
he was real old fashioned
.
DC:
The old school.
MC:
Thats just it
for First Communion it was none
of this nonsense like mothers and fathers bring them up to
receive
they were there and they were brought up as a class
sort of thing
.for Confirmation you had to learn all the
hymns and most of them was in Latin in those days and you
had to sing the mass as well and again no scarcity
.there is
great singers in Kells and there always was
but you
cant get them to come and sing
.now the sing often at mass
and maybe ¼ of the congregation would sing the others
wouldnt
..and you know I dont know what does be
wrong with them
..we had Fr. Donegan one time
he was a
great man with the choir when he was here
I think he is
retired now or something he is up the country now
..but he
was very musical
..and then of course Fr. Rispin with all
the Pantos
..Fr. Kiernan with all the
Operettas
etc
etc. I forget them all but they were
really really good
DC:
When I interviewed Kitty Carolan she told be all about the Operas
.she even kept some of the old programmes...so I was able
to take copies which was nice
MC:
Oh I see
of course
its a pity in
those days there was no tapes or recordings and they were really
and Im not just saying cause it happened in Kells
they
were marvellous singers
everyone even the
principals
.there was one year he went outside to get
somebody a soprano for one of the Operas and you know she
couldnt hold a candle to the other ones that had minor
parts in it but far better singers
you know that kind of
way
I dont know what her name was even
he used
to have one on every year
and then Fr. Rispin had the
pantos and you had to be a pioneer to be in that
yeah..
DC:
I didnt know that
.
MC:
And all the boys turned up and the whole lot
.like the
didnt let him down and some of them were
..they could
drink. .as the fellow said
Lough Eireann.
DC:
It strikes me May, that there has always been a very thriving
Dramatic and Musical life in Kells over the years
.would
that be true?
MC:
Yeah it would
but to get them to do it you
know
..or get them to be in something
.it was awful
hard
.there was one fellow I know and he is dead now
lord of mercy on him
he was a horrid man on the
beer but
.he had the most powerful voice I have ever heard
in a man in the town here
.his favourite song was ghost
riders in the sky
.and you should have heard him
.they
couldnt get him in Panto they couldnt get him into
choirs
he just wouldnt go and he was a beautiful
singer you know
.they wouldnt commit themselves like
to the practice and all that
.and was Kitty in
some of them operas herself?
DC:
I think she was in a couple
yes
MC:
Ah the Pantos were really good
..they were really
really good and the ponys were
.they would always have
a live animal in it
a small little pony for
Cinderella and they had a donkey another time and they had a cow
another time
you know
it was really good.
DC:
And of course the pantomimes are kept going by John Grant and it
will pass on from that
sorry just to change tacts you
mentioned the orphans and the orphanages there
would you
say a bit more about that you know
MC:
Well I didnt know them they were just there
.like some
of them were at school naturally and in those days the children
didnt wear uniforms to school
it didnt come in
.which should have been at that time too
.a lot of
them were not from around that was in the orphanage
like
there was a couple of families ...three or four maybe
but they were all from different places like
parents
died or something happened
then they just had to go in there
you know
..
DC:
And did the mix with the rest of the school children?
MC:
Oh yea they did alright
Interruption
MC:
Outside the gates of misery, no more Irish, no more French are
sitting on the orphanage bench
kick up tables
I missed
a line there but I will continue on first and then Ill tell
you
.kick up table kick up chairs
.kick Sister Anthony
down the stairs
.if Sr. Brendan interferes
.knock her
down and box her ears
..
DC:
Where should we be this time next year outside the gates of
misery, no more Irish, no more French are sitting on the
orphanage bench
MC:
Bye Bye orphans
.kick up tables kick up chairs
.have
you got that?
oh heavens
.kick Sr. Brendan down
the stairs
.
DC:
Sr. Anthony down the stairs
..
MC:
If Sr. Brendan interferes knock her down and box her
ears
..well you see it was somebody in the ordinary school
that wrote this and its in it
.bye bye orphans
put
that in front of
DC:
kick up tables
..kick up chairs
so bye bye orphans
..Thats a great rhyme.
MC:
Some young one in the school thought of that herself
.
DC:
Its very witty
..its very funny
.you did well to
remember it after all these years
MC:
I never forgot it cause we were chanting it for several times
when you would be getting holidays
.They were good days
really
.you know
.There was manners put on you then
..if you did that with them now
.you would be in
trouble and a good slap never harmed anybody
..you know the
old saying
spare the rod and spoil the
child
.
DC:
You have scene some big changes in your life in Kells all over
the years
.when you left school
.would you say a
little about your working life
.you worked in a shop for a
while
.
MC:
Down in Carrolls
..I was in it for 6 or 7
years
.there was hell in the house here because I hated
school and when I wanted to go into shop life
..they
didnt want it at all
.my father wanted something
better
.but I wasnt going to spend it on
persecution
..I had an aunt a nun and when she heard she
blew her top altogether
.that she never thought her niece
of hers would go and settle for something like that she thought I
would do better
for once I pleased myself and I was quit
happy in what I was doing and thats it.
DC:
You were right
..and how, was it working in
Carrolls
was it still Carrolls before it was
Robert Hughes
was it still Carrolls
.
MC:
It was Carrolls
.Robert Hughes father was the manager
of it
DC:
So I believe and thats how, he come to have it.
MC:
It was left to George
you know
I got on very well with
George, and I can remember one time the boss
Mr Carroll
asked me to get him a few things to bring home
like in a
box
.he lived out in Moynalty
..and in the lot
of groceries he wanted shaving cream
I got all ready and put
it in the box gave it to him
he brought it out to the
car
..we came in on Monday and he had this tube of
stuff
..I seen him coming in with it
.he said I would
be a long time trying to shave with that
.toothpaste I gave
him
.I picked up the wrong one
.they were all on the
shelve and I just wasnt minding what I was doing and picked
it up and gave it to him
the poor man had no shaving
cream
.he was a
..you went in the Wednesday after
Christmas to stock take
you got no extra money for
that
..you werent paid for your day that everybody
else was off and you were in to stock take
..he was a mean
man that way like
he would get the last out of you
.nine o clock on a Saturday evening when we would close and
half six every other day
..there was one particular woman
used to come in always last on a Saturday night
.and she
would be in Nultys who used to sell the papers
.there was
two old ladies
.two sisters and the sold papers like a
newsagents
.and when she would see the shop being
closed
you know getting the shutters up in the window and
all this type of thing
..she would come over to get her
weeks groceries and she would want rashers and ham and
everything
..and the machines were cleaned at that stage and
when they would see her coming three or four of them would
skip
..I remember one night I was the only one left and
George the boss and the others went and she came in she wanted
ham and she wanted brawn I think and rashers and something like
that
ten o` clock I got out after serving her because he had
to stay and clean the machines
.with the salt it would
destroy the wheel of the thing
..so George told the boss the
next day ..well on Monday, about this woman coming over at 9 o
clock to get her messages
well George told him in good
faith
George thought he would have a
solution
he had a good solution as and from next
Saturday night we close at half nine
we had another half an
hour and no extra money for it or anything
..so Im
telling you when she was coming in she got an awful few cold
shoulders on different times and kind of got the message then and
she would be in with ten minuets to the time but otherwise when
we were closing she would come in
..you know
..
DC:
She was trying to push you to the limits of your
endurance
as far as you could go
..
MC:
It wasnt fair on all the staff
you know after a
hard day and everything had to be weighed
.in those days
.very few packet stuff or anything
you had to
fill it and weigh it and tie it up
..you know
they
showed us a way
.you know when you see a big bag of
stuff
you would always see a big piece of twine and
they would tie it and it wouldnt open
but if we
were putting a stone of flour in a bag
..that much twine
would do it and that is hard to believe
but it was a fold
down
.you push it down like that
.you see
.and
you got your twine and you put it in there
..and then tie
it on the top
no matter how you bang it on the counter
it would never open
that much twine would do you
the
length of that
.and a little bit extra to tie it
.you
know
..thats the way we had to do it
.the boss
often came
when you were after weighing and stuff he
would come and check it after
I remember one day there was
a new boy brought in and he weighed stuff after him and over 12
packets of stuff
..a quarter pound of weight he was giving
more
..it was always heavy
.so he was called up over
that
.they kept an eye on him
..if he lost a quarter
pound in every ten bags
.it was a lot.
DC:
It would add up.
MC:
You know
thats the way he went
..
DC:
So life for workers was quite hard
there was long hours
you didnt have that many rights.
MC:
I worked in it for a whole year for nothing
.to get into
Carrolls at the time; it was the place to get into
.he
had a very big clientele going in
..Ya know, very posh and
some of them were lovely people
.and some of them were
devils coming in
.they really showed their authority
..your only a shop assistant and Im Mrs such a
one
..like that type of thing
..there was some of them
lovely people
.you couldnt wish for anything nicer but
.I remember refusing to do one thing a certain man came in,
a big shot too
and he said I have bottles in the car I
want them brought in
.so Mr Carroll said May he said go out
and bring the bottles in from Mr Such and suchs
car
I went out and there was a big basket like a big
tub
you know there was two handles and when I saw it was
full of bottles
..and I said well I cant lift that
I
couldnt even get it out of the car and I just came back in
and Mr Carroll said did you bring in the bottles and I said No Mr
Carroll I didnt because I couldnt lift the basket and
Im not bringing them in
.so he sent out one of the
boys and it took him all his time to lift it...the thing was that
full
..that was the type
.you had to bring the stuff
out for them and put it in the car and even then like that you
had to go out and empty it and bring them in
.you know.
DC:
You were at their beck and call
..do you think there was
much class distinction in Kells? Did the upper class sort of look
down on the lower classes
MC:
Ah yeah there was
.there was plenty of that you
know
..plenty of it but they
..as I said some of them
were lovely people
I was very fond of three or four of them
but there was two I used to hate to see them coming in
..in
the heel of the hunt
they were broke, they were working at
someone elses money at the time
. He ran a
yearly bill with some of them and when they would be paying the
yearly bill
.they would want a big reduction when they were
paying the bill
and their would be people coming in paying
the bill with big families and paying as much and paying weekly
and they never got a penny off their bill
.you know that
type of thing.
DC:
So you saw it all
..do then after Carrolls what did
you do? After you finished in Carrolls
MC:
I started myself
..
DC:
In your own little shop.
MC:
Work never started until then
.my father didnt want me
in any account to start on my own
he said you have to
think long and hard about this and he said the boy and the girl
can put there hand out for a weeks wages doesnt know how
lucky they are, and how true he was to a point
..there was Saturdays I came home and my head
was splitting with worry
where was I going to get the money
to pay for stuff
but it kinda came then
whipped
Ice-cream was started then
it was on the go and I wanted a
machine
.the machine at that stage
the first one I got
was about £4,000 at the time and sure
.the man nearly went
off his head when I gave him the price
.but an uncle of mine
stood to me to get the loan of four and I got it
.
DC:
Guarantee.
MC:
I had it paid back in a year with the Ice-cream
.from now,
meeting people and all the first thing the say May your
ice-cream we never got anything like it
..it
was the type of stuff
there was two ice-creams you could
buy
.there was a cheap one and a dear one
..the cheap
one was £4.00 a gallon and it came in a plastic bag, in a lovely
cardboard
.real strong cardboard box
all you had to do
was cut the top of it and pour it into the machine
..now
that was four pounds a box and the other one was £7.00 and I
bought the seven
one traveller said May your mad
..hot
weather they wont appreciate good stuff they would take
anything
.I said no I had that in my mind that I want the
best
.and I couldnt keep it going I was that busy with
it
.I sold more Ice-cream than a big shop in Dublin and
everyone says May your Ice-cream nobody ever came up to
it
..but that is why I bought the dear one
..and I sold
ten times more of it than I would have on the cheaper one
..
DC:
So you became famous for your ice-cream
.
MC:
I remember when the Pope was coming to Dublin and we were up in
the Phoenix Park, before seven o clock in the morning and we met
this man and he said
ha ha that would be a very cold
morning for an Ice-cream
..and he was a steward up there and
I never remember seeing the man in my life before but he knew
us
..
DC:
He knew of you
..
MC:
there was a lot of men from Dublin who used to go fishing and
they would come down to Lough Leane and Lough Sheelan
..they
would come in to us at night when they would be going down
to get fresh bread and milk for the weekend and all
..it was
probably maybe one of them
.
DC:
He knew you and you didnt know him
.that kind of way.
MC:
Yeah and apart from that to I used to sell Valentine
cards
.Id go in a big way to Valentines
.we had big
ones and they were called puppets and they were musical and you
would never break them
they would never break except
you broke them it was a wind
.and you know if you were
gentle with the wind...it would never break
.I think at that
stage they were £8.00 each the cards
.but they stood about
that size
I remember when a man came in and he was a
vet
..he asked how much were the valentines cards and Philo
was showing them to him
that was my sister
..we had
little ones right up to the very big ones and he said how much
was those and he pointed to them
..because they were eye
catching ones
..they were lovely really
and Philo
said £8.00
.£8.00 he said you would hire a band for
less than that
..and Philo said its a good job there
is not too many like you said she
.or they wouldnt
need to manufacture them
..well she stuck him to the
ground
..another fellow came in and he bought a
card
.not a big one
.you know in-between
.it was
around the five
and when he posted it wasnt there a
postal strike
..and he persecuted us, he came back to know
what he could do
..she didnt get the card
.I
said sure what can we do abut it
you posted it
but he
had us persecuted he really thought that we would give him the
money back
.because the card was mislaid
so I
dont know whether she ever got it.
DC:
She probably didnt
..she had probably gone off him by
that stage anyway
he probably did her no good
.
MC:
Then I had Easter eggs from six old pence to £80.00
..and
we sold every one of them (May shows Danny a picture from 1984 of
all the Easter eggs she sold in her shop)
when the
different seasons would come I would always turn that part of the
shop into what the season wanted
you know like Easter,
Christmas, Valentines
all the special things went in there
.now these were (referring to photograph) the six penny
ones on the ground and these were all the big eggs
that one is much the same as well
..
DC:
Its great you have a photograph to record it
..
MC:
Thats a close up of one corner taken by
myself
thats a little one she would always be in
the shop
..when there was Waster eggs she would be in her
glory in the middle of them you know
.we had big baskets
like (referring to photograph)
DC:
A big chocolate face on the young one too
there she is
again
MC:
You see there was s big toy with it
.
DC:
Its bigger than her!
the Easter egg is nearly as big as her.
MC:
Thats just a repeat I took and thats a few of
myself
.do you see that there (referring to photograph)
DC:
Where is that
.is that in
MC:
No, in
DC:
Is that what is.
MC:
And when you would be finishing at night them streets were
bare
.and when you get up the next morning they would be
like that
.there are all petals look
..
DC:
It was like a floral tribute
MC:
But you werent allowed walk on it
.
DC:
No you couldnt.
MC:
DC:
Corpus Christy in June.
MC:
you were allowed
..there was little stepladders up
.you could stand on them and take the photograph but you
werent allowed to walk
..you would see them all here
and they wouldnt dare walk on them
.
DC:
Its lovely
.so you had a little holiday
a
little trip
MC:
Ah now
.well Helen and myself used to go every year on a
holiday
DC:
Did you
.its great to have those
Remind me May, cause
Im new to Kells
.where exactly was your shop.
MC:
Do you know where the butcher is here in
DC:
Dohertys
oh is that where it was
..
MC:
Seven owners from when I sold it
..
DC:
Is that right
and when did you give it up or when did you
sell it roughly
..a good few years ago
.was it?
MC:
My brother died suddenly in 82 and kind of the bottom fell
out of everything
.he died suddenly on his way to Navan in
the car
.it took then half the day to break the news to
us
.they came and told us he had a little turn and I wanted
to go up and see him in Navan
..no no you cant
..years
ago
..but it took them about half a day to tell us
to
get the message across
.I was very unsettled after that
because he used to do the VAT for me and he used to price stuff
and when he died
.there was two of us left and if anything
happened one or the others
.you would never manage you
know
I had it in my mind then Im going to
sell
.and then unfortunately I started wool
and that
was the greatest mistake of all
it really was
.
DC:
So you gave it up around 1982 or soon after that
MC:
Ay
(Shows Danny another photo) That was Gladys and I
at badminton
.
DC:
So youre involved in the badminton club as well? Amongst
other things in Kells.
MC:
(May shows Danny a different photo) this must have been
.I
found
.Kells football team the time they won the
championship.
DC:
There is no date on the back
.
MC:
He was always at me to date something.
DC:
Its a must
MC:
He was always at me over it
.but sure
..
DC:
You would always be able to work it out but it makes life easier
when they are dated
MC:
This one is dated 1966
thats a cousin of mine...he
taught down in the Community school
DC:
Not PJ Caffrey.
MC:
No
my mothers side of the family he is Garry
.
DC:
If there was another book was done on Kells
.we could get a
loan of some of them
.a copy of some of those photos cause
you have a great collection
.
MC:
They brought out a lovely book at one stage about
DC:
I have seen it
..
MC;
And
the nun that was over that Sr. Benignus, she died there
just the month or so before Christmas.
DC:
She was a big age 95 or so
MC:
95/96 I dont know which and her mind was as clear then as
it was when she was a young nun
.she had a wonderful brain
altogether you know
..
DC:
Big into Maths I believe
A great teacher.
MC:
She really was you know
a lot of them they were very
dedicated in what they did
..they wanted perfection all of
the time and that type
.she helped young ones that were you
know a little bit backward and she took them out of hours and
gave them grinds and all
..you know they wouldnt do it
now
.they would not
.
DC:
Out and above the call of duty
..I believe youre a
great woman for the GAA you were at the Meath / Cavan final in
1949
..
MC:
1949 that was the first time I was in Croke Park and I went with
my father and Benny and his girlfriend and in those days you
didnt book your seat you paid at the gate and you had to
queue for hours but we were queuing for hours and I saw the boys
gong in with stretchers you know
a couple of them and
I saw the gate open
.in those days there was a sideline in
Croke Park
.you know what a sideline is
.you were
sitting beside the pitch
.
DC:
I do
.I do
.
MC:
They pitch was slightly bumpy but I got in
..Benny said to
me how did you get in there and I told him and he said
thousands at it and my first time in Croke Park and I did
this
.and I didnt know anything better of the
danger
and didnt he wait and when we were coming back
out with other things
.didnt he just slip in and got
in as well
.and my father was left with the flasks of tea
and the sandwiches
.and got a place in Croke Park and
we had ringside seats for it
..you know by getting in there
and it cost nothing extra
..but he gave out
.we had
nothing to eat
.and I remember we were sitting beside two
Kerry men and they were eating
.do you know the
cheese
cheddar
.they were eating the cheddar
cheese like you would eat an apple
they shared some of
it with my brother
..I wouldnt eat it of course and
they had minerals
..I took the mineral alright
but that
is what kept us going for the whole day
..we left here at 6
o clock in the morning and trying to get into the game and it not
till 3 o clock and nothing to eat but it was our own
fault
.it was worth it
the first time
ever
..I think Benny had a baby Ford at the time and I think
6 of us went in the Baby Ford
we were smothered going
up
.but it got us there and back alright
..
DC:
You remember that big occasion and have you followed the GAA
since
.the Meath team
..
MC:
Oh yeah
hurling preferable to Football
.
DC:
You prefer hurling to Football.
MC:
I love hurling
..I suppose cause I played camogie you
know
.something like that there was a lot of them around
that time
..the girls played camogie and they liked their
hurling after that
its a far better game than
football
.
DC:
Its supposed to be the 2nd fastest game on earth
after Ice Hockey
..its spectacular to watch.
MC:
When the ball is hit probably it reaches speeds of 70 mile an
hour
.and I remember one time hitting it and it hit a girl
on the shin
.and you would just think
just like
that you could see it cutting down the shin
.and the awful
stitching around it
.to catch a hurling ball going fast it
would break your hand
you would have to be very
skilful at it
.
DC:
Absolutely
MC:
Again my brother always maintained
..people would always
say its a very dangerous game
...its not
.he
maintained when you get an injury playing hurling its a
open cut and it can be attended to there and then or a couple of
days after it
.but in football a kick in the small of the
back and kick in the kidneys and it could come again you for six
months
.you know but the hurling can be dealt with there and
then
..you can here the shins
you know you could hear
them hitting and if it connects with a fellow you can hear it
like
..there was a very funny one there about three years
ago
.a referee, I saw it on telly and Meath wasnt
playing in it
.but he threw in the ball
.and do you
know when the throw in the ball they swipe to get at it
..It cut the legs of him
.he didnt stand far
enough back
like you know he went down
you know
he
was alright after a while
..to think a belt of a
Hurley
.and then to when you are warm you dont feel it
as much
the referee was only starting the game
.but
its his own fault he stood in to near
DC:
He copped it
yeah
.would you have gone to many games
Gael Colmcille.
MC:
No not really.
DC:
More the bigger.
MC:
Because there is a reason I dont follow the club
stuff
..my brother was in that and he was secretary of the
Meath minors board for I dont know how many
years
there was a presentation over in the Gaelic
Centre of a young fellow who won a Handball All Ireland
and
they were having a night out for him over there and Benny was at
it and to discover that there was none of the Gael Colmcille
players present at the presentation and he got up and gave his
spiff and said it wasnt every day or even every year that a
young fellow brought an All Ireland to the town
handball
.and he kindly said it was a disgrace that the club
wasnt represented
.to honour the young fellow and
all
..I wasnt at it but I believe that he gave a great
spiff about it
but two days later he got a letter
banning him from Gael Colmcille because he dared to speak out
like he did about them
.and I said to hell with them
I
wont support them and I didnt
..maybe I
shouldnt have but I was very sore about it as well
.they should have had somebody out of the club representing
the club on the presentation of the young fellow the All Ireland
Medal
..and then they got thick
I think they banned him
for six weeks or something
.and said he couldnt go
over
so after that I just didnt follow them
.you know.
DC:
You turned your back on them
MC:
Well I go to all the
.
DC:
Big games.
MC:
The ones I can get a ticket for
.the chap in the town gets
me one
..he never ever
.let us town
.the two of
us, he gave us tickets all the time
then I go to the hurling
ones myself..
DC:
In
MC:
Oh anywhere
DC:
Anywhere where there is a good hurling game
MC:
I have a little mark there on my forehead where I was opening the
car door
I was opening it in PortLaoise
.and
didnt I open the car door and didnt I bang it and it
was
thought I forgot something
I was half in and half
out and it just ripped me there
.so a man I know brought me
and said come on there is only a few of us left
..Ill
have to see to you
.and he brought me into the Meath
dressing room where all the fellows were and there was a nurse
there and she dollied it up
..it could have done with two
stitches
.like do you know the very top of the car
door
.oh will I ever forget it
.so I have that as a
reminder of the day
..
DC:
A little memento
..of the occasion
its not that
obvious but its a little memento
.I dont want to
tire you out
.but just one last thing
you have lived
all your life in Suffolk street
obviously a lot of people
have come and gone and houses have changed ..so would you just
talk for a couple of moments about Suffolk street down through
the years
perhaps the different people who have come and
gone
..any changes you have noticed
MC:
There was a Cinema in Suffolk Street
.it was a very busy
little street all the time
.Ill tell you a funny one
when Im finished with this but you had to go when you were
going to the railway
.that was the main way of going to the
Christian Brothers
..going to the Tech...going to the shoe
factory
.this street was very busy
.very busy
street always
..turn off this And I will tell you the one
about
.they were in the Christian brothers do you see and
there was religious instructions going on
.when this young
fellow came in and he was late
.and the priest said to
him
well ? who died on the Cross
.he said I dont
know father I came by Cannon Street
..because the Cross
(Cross of Kells) was below he went to school
..he could have
came down by the Cross and it was a straight run over from the
bull ring as they call it
..and he could have gone down that
way
and straight..but he used to come down Cannon
street
it was a little bit long and
and said he
I dont know Father I came by Cannon Street
he was just
asking the question at the wrong time
but that actually did
happen
you know the young fellow
.I suppose when
something is pounced on you like that you know
..
DC:
So he just wasnt trying to be funny he
.
MC:
The priest was talking about our Lord
and the other fellow
took it as someone was after dying on his way down to
school
..there is lots of houses
there used to be a
forge over here
DC:
I didnt know
just opposite
that would have done
a big trade at one time
with all the horses and
carts
MC:
There was three blacksmiths in Kells at a time
do you know
where Centra is now.
DC:
Yes.
MC:
That was Bartle Fitzsimons forge there
then Pa Gibney had
this one over here
..then there was Tevlins in
DC:
Is there any other interesting business or trades
.that have
gone disappeared
.the forge the cinema
.
MC:
There was a shoe maker up the top of the street
..John
Mallon
he did very well and then of course Jim Clarke the
Photographer
.the son
his daughter was married to ?? and
there son is still there
..but he doesnt take
photographs ..he only trims down what the mother takes you know
that type of thing
.puts them in albums and all like
that
..
DC:
And would there be any other families like yourself who lived in
the street all of their lives
..
MC:
There was one down in the bottom, Nellie Mc Cormack
..Cella
Cummins was born and reared in Suffolk Street but she married and
went up the other end of the town and then when her parents died
she came back
.lets see now was there anybody
else
funny when you say that
.Geraghtys are down
there
.they were born and reared in the street too as
well
.looking back very few of the older
.of no
relation is in that whole far side of the street
..they are
all different from what I remember you know
.
DC:
Big changes over the years and people have come and gone
..with
the exceptions of Geraghtys
and there is a Clarke
below where Jim Carolan the Councillor was born
....down at
the end of the street
there was obviously Carolans there at
one stage
MC:
I dont know really
.I just remember them like you
know...and whether they were there all there life
I
dont know really
DC:
They are gone now anyway
..
MC:
Now Im trying to think down along
..Oh, Bob Bell he
was born and reared in this street as well
..
DC:
You have seen some big changes in the street and in the town
during your life
.
MC:
Oh I did
its a different lifestyle altogether ...well
naturally
.you could go out and leave your front door open
and nothing you know would ever happen ....nobody
would do any damage to anybody
..I saw in the chronicle
where there was a bus taken in Kells and burnt out in Girley
bog
DC:
Yeah Oliver Usher found it going for his Sunday walk
they
had some temerity to do that.
MC:
Yeah like the amount of money that
and they think
thats funny
.
DC:
Thats not funny
..
MC:
But sure however I always maintain they will have to answer for
some things some day
DC:
They will
..Gurriers
and they ruined the bog or part
of the bog or the trail anyway
its a lovely
spot
I walk out there myself
..
MC:
thats where an uncle of mine used to cut
turf
out at the bog
.manys a summer I
stayed on the bog and the best tan I ever got was bog tan
..
DC:
From the heat
from the sun
so you did a stint
cutting turf out on the bog
MC:
Yeah, I know how you cut it and throw it up to the man and he
foots it
.and there is a name on the next thing they
do
..and then they clamp it
theres three
they spread it
.they turn it then
.the get it
up and put it in little
..what do they call it
foot
like that about four sods and when it is dry enough
then they take it up and they build a clamp
..the longer and
the higher it is the better
I remember all that right
enough
and then going and bringing it home
drawing it
home
.
DC:
So you have a bit of experience of that life in the
countryside
as well as the town
in those days we had
the trains...we had the buses
we still had lovely ponies and
traps going around ...you had the best of both worlds
.you
were moving into modern society yet you had the older one.
DC:
You had a good blend of both where as now you have moved too far
in one direction
MC:
Exactly
no it was good
it really was
DC:
And did you use the cinema much below
.
MC:
We werent allowed
.we were allowed the matinee on a
Sunday and if you didnt go to the matinee you couldnt
ask to go during the week because you werent allowed go
and thats all that was to it
.and in those
days when parents said no they meant no
.I would have went
every night if I got the chance
.
DC:
There is a Tommy Morris living in
MC:
There is a house between he and us
well he originally lived
in Church lane
DC:
Is that where he is from
MC:
Im not sure actually I dont know whether he was born
out in Rosmeen or not
..the father had a farm out
there
then came into the town
and then he married Mary
out here
.
DC:
I did send him a letter a while back I might follow up on him
and see has he a few things to tell me as well
..
MC:
He might be able to remember better than I would
its only
little bits of things that is coming back
DC:
You have done very well
.very well
I sent Mary
Rogers a letter too
Kitty McEntee explained to me she is
quite deaf.
MC:
Very deaf
..
DC:
She said the best way would be to go through Paddy Rogers the
son
and see if we could organise something that way
MC:
She would be real interesting too
but then she
wasnt born in
DC:
Was she
..
MC:
I cant remember
.she was a nun for a while
.you
know
she was in the convent
.she left it
.I dont know how long
.now she told me that
herself but I dont know how long she was in it or whether
she went to be professed
.dont think she went as far
at that
.and then she came out and she was working in the
town here for somebody
.and Jimmy Rogers the bread man she
married
DC:
Down in Headfort place for a while
were they? Is that
where they were
someone told me they were
MC:
Well I dont know really
DC:
So she had been the street for a while
.
MC:
She is 98 this year
.she is a marvellous woman
.and she
does her own baking and she has two dogs and I dont know
how many cats she has
.she feeds Paul Murphys dog as
well
.she calls it Murphy, when our two are
going for a walk down the street, there is a little gate between
her house and Pauls house
.oh the whole town knows
when Im going for a walk
.they kick up such a racket
to get your man to bark out
you see
..she has a great
outlook on things
..
DC:
Has she
..
MC:
Beautiful skin not a blotch on it
she is going a little bit
stooped now
in the last couple of years but other than that
now
she worked hard all her life
you know
DC:
And she has lived to be 98 so she has obviously lead a good life,
a healthy life
MC:
Exactly
DC:
Ill talk to Paddy, and see what is the best way to talk to
her
..
MC:
It will be hard on you
you know
DC:
Cause she is a bit deaf
..I might have to write out some
questions for Paddy and he might have to ask them or do it
somehow like that or get around it
MC:
I think she worked with Lacys
.the solicitors she worked in
the house there
.I dont think she worked anywhere
else, Id say that
.I could be very wrong now
.cause I
didnt know her until she came to Suffolk Street
you
know
she was a good woman
.her brothers got
sick
she brought them all in and minded them before they
died
.and a man called Charlie
Charlie
.I
have to tell the storey and I dont know the name
.but
he worked in Fitzsimons years ago this Charlie
.the name
might come back to me and when he got sick
she minded him
as well
and he no relation to her or anything like that at
all
Charlie
.no its gone
.
DC:
its gone out of your head
.
MC:
No she was good like that
.you know she was a good natured
woman and she had only one of a family and he turned out very
well
.you know
..
DC:
The solicitor
..thats great you know you have told be
quiet a lot May in the hour or so
you have done well
..
MC:
School was hard in those days I really enjoyed it
..I
didnt like to study
DC:
And you had the pressure of the Leaving certificate hanging over
your head
MC:
Thats why I wouldnt do it
.Benny, Lord have
Mercy on him
he was going great at it
you know
..he was really very good he was a great man at the Maths
and things like that too
..and then that cousin
..it
kind of ran in that end of the family
.like you know but I
wasnt interested at all in school
I had no time for
it
..I couldnt
..I dont know wheat it was
I just wouldnt bother
.lazy
..
DC:
But you have no regrets anyway
.
MC:
No not one I would do the same again
DC:
Of course you would
so if there is any last thing you
want to say your welcome and if you forget something and you
remember it later sure we can always
I can always talk
to you again. Ill knock it off then
..