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MAY CAFFREY May has
lived all her life at the same house in |
Kells Archaeological & Historical Society |
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MAY CAFFREY May has
lived all her life at the same house in |
| Interview with May Caffrey |
This is Danny
Cusack I’m here in Suffolk Street in Kells on Wednesday 19th
January 2011 I’m talking to May Caffrey about her memories
of Kells growing up ...so welcome May and thank you for talking
to us…so would you perhaps start off at the beginning and
tell us briefly a little about your own background…where you
grew up and your childhood and that….and that kind of thing.
MC:
Well I was born and reared in the house we are living in now in
Suffolk Street and there was just three in the family…three
siblings you know …my mother and father and just three of
us….I went to school here…Kells at that stage was a far
better town than it is today there was everything in it…..as
I said before two bakeries…..a brewery and I often heard my
father saying there was a Chandlery in Kells and some kind of
leather work as well….leather alley down in John’s
street…that’s where it came from you know ….and
what else…and there was races …Loyd races….I
don’t remember this ….but this you know….was in
the very beginning ….they came by train to the races and I
often heard my father saying the horses and traps would go over
to the railway to collect the people to bring them down to the
races in Loyd….I told you we had a cinema in it …..
DC:
Was that just across the road…..
MC:
Yeah down at the end in Suffolk Street…the schools
wasn’t amalgamated…you had the convent and primary and
secondary ….then you had the Christian Brothers who were
again...did secondary…and before the amalgamated….the
tech ..that was the three and then the amalgamated
like…..and the tech and the brothers went in
together…that sort of thing you know….and that’s
how the community school started…but the convent didn’t
join in ….they are still.
DC:
Separate…..
MC:
Separate…yeah…..what else I cant…..
DC:
So you lived in this house all your life…..you must know
Kells and
MC:
Which I never did!…It was old nuns down here in the convent
when we were going to school I think there was 36 in it at the
time as far as I can remember…..you had a different nun for
every subject…..you know...they used to put on plays
…..they were really good you know…they played
Nemesis’s and the Sign of the Cross….Fatima and
all of them…and all the children took part in this…it
was all just the convent you know …..
DC:
It sounded like a fairly happy schooling by and large….
MC:
Ah yes you know…there used to be a big fair on the 16th
October ….the cattle end used to be up on the Fair
green and the horses were down in Farrell Street…..the place
would be packed, we would have the day off from school cause you
would have to cross the busy road down here….we were always
praying that it would be on a Friday or on a Monday so that we
would have a long weekend….you know all them little things I
remember….
DC:
Any games you played at school or at home in the street….
MC:
You could play out in the street in those days …..there
wasn’t much traffic….we played top and hopscotch and
rounder’s and all that type of thing …and then you
could go and join the tennis
club if you want to and things like that……and playing
camogie …it was a happy childhood really…like you know
the tower up here …you know there is a window….I
don’t know what you would call it ….it wouldn’t be
a door either but about six of us was up ...when the church would
have a service on a Sunday in the evening and the gates were open
and went in and got in this window and when we got
inside….we thought you see ….the level of the ground
but wasn’t the bottom of it down
the dept of the footpath outside.
DC:
Big drop altogether.
MC:
Big drop…then when we tried to get out …we
couldn’t get out…..there was dead birds there and all
birds droppings and we couldn’t get up….and we were
panicking the five of us ….the sexton I cant remember what
his name was at that time …he had to put down a yard brush
and we had to catch on to that …and he pulled us up he made
a run at us with the brush then and told us if he ever got us in
there again he,we could stay in ….now that was just a
frightening experience…….you know
DC:
It would have been….You wouldn’t forget that in a hurry
MC:
It was very frightening really.
DC:
I bet any other children haven’t attempted it since
either…
MC:
I wouldn’t imagine they would, and I remember another day
with a pal of mine…she had a little terrier dog and I have
one and we went to a funeral that was up in the church here
…didn’t one of the dogs I didn’t know which of
them…..didn’t they find a human bone…and ran down
the street with it…..I don’t know how many ran after
him to get it to bury it back…that’s just another
incident…..
DC:
A funny little childhood incident that you wouldn’t
forget…yeah….and you didn’t have any problem going
up there to the Church of Ireland in those days…it
wasn’t any kind of ….everyone kind of got on..
MC:
Of yeah there was no bigotry or anything like that you
know…out of this house you know my parents went to as many
Protestant funerals as they did as…you know on out
side…no there was no…...he was a nice man…he
was a Mr Carson…..I remember Mr Carson….and he was a
…it was a long time ago since he was there ….but he was
a very nice man and the last one…..not the last one Cannon
Olden….now he was a nice man……
DC:
I remember him….
MC:
Then there was a man after him …..a very young man…it
was one of his own crowd that …I shouldn’t say crowd
…but one of his parishioners that got him shifted because
they didn’t like him…..I think they have a lady now
DC:
They have from
MC:
I know, sure they will all be looking for ministers of the church
after a while you know…but there is only two down here now
and they are just ran off their feet and when I was young there
was ….and Kells wasn’t nearly as big at that stage and
they had three….and then it went into four….and then
all of a sudden Kells started to get bigger and bigger and bigger
and then the priests started to get scarcer and scarcer like you
know….well the two men down their at moment work very
hard …….
DC:
Fathers Byrne and Malone.
Break:
DC:
Can you remember the church when you were a child such as
Communion or Confirmation or weddings or special events there or
any special memories or priests in days gone by.
MC:
Well I remember Fr. McCullen…he was a very strict man and at
the same time I believe he was very good to the
orphans…..the orphanages were there in those days and he was
very good to them….in other words you couldn’t cod or
anything with him…he was real old fashioned….
DC:
The old school.
MC:
That’s just it ……for First Communion it was none
of this nonsense like mothers and fathers bring them up to
receive…they were there and they were brought up as a class
sort of thing….for Confirmation you had to learn all the
hymns and most of them was in Latin in those days and you
had to sing the mass as well and again no scarcity….there is
great singers in Kells and there always was ……but you
cant get them to come and sing….now the sing often at mass
and maybe ¼ of the congregation would sing the others
wouldn’t …..and you know I don’t know what does be
wrong with them…..we had Fr. Donegan one time…he was a
great man with the choir when he was here …I think he is
retired now or something he is up the country now…..but he
was very musical…..and then of course Fr. Rispin with all
the Panto’s …..Fr. Kiernan with all the
Operettas…etc…etc. I forget them all but they were
really really good……
DC:
When I interviewed Kitty Carolan she told be all about the Operas
….she even kept some of the old programmes...so I was able
to take copies which was nice…
MC:
Oh I see……of course……it’s a pity in
those days there was no tapes or recordings and they were really
and I’m not just saying cause it happened in Kells…they
were marvellous singers ……everyone even the
principals ….there was one year he went outside to get
somebody a soprano for one of the Operas and you know she
couldn’t hold a candle to the other ones that had minor
parts in it but far better singers…you know that kind of
way…I don’t know what her name was even …he used
to have one on every year……and then Fr. Rispin had the
pantos and you had to be a pioneer to be in that…yeah..
DC:
I didn’t know that ….
MC:
And all the boys turned up and the whole lot….like the
didn’t let him down and some of them were…..they could
drink. .as the fellow said …Lough Eireann.
DC:
It strikes me May, that there has always been a very thriving
Dramatic and Musical life in Kells over the years ….would
that be true?
MC:
Yeah it would ……but to get them to do it you
know…..or get them to be in something….it was awful
hard….there was one fellow I know and he is dead now
…lord of mercy on him……he was a horrid man on the
beer but ….he had the most powerful voice I have ever heard
in a man in the town here….his favourite song was ghost
riders in the sky….and you should have heard him….they
couldn’t get him in Panto they couldn’t get him into
choirs…he just wouldn’t go and he was a beautiful
singer you know….they wouldn’t commit themselves like
to the practice and all that …….and was Kitty in
some of them operas herself?
DC:
I think she was in a couple…yes…
MC:
Ah the Panto’s were really good…..they were really
really good and the pony’s were….they would always have
a live animal in it ……a small little pony for
Cinderella and they had a donkey another time and they had a cow
another time…you know…it was really good.
DC:
And of course the pantomimes are kept going by John Grant and it
will pass on from that…sorry just to change tact’s you
mentioned the orphans and the orphanages there …would you
say a bit more about that you know…
MC:
Well I didn’t know them they were just there….like some
of them were at school naturally and in those days the children
didn’t wear uniforms to school …it didn’t come in
….which should have been at that time too….a lot of
them were not from around that was in the orphanage
like…there was a couple of families ...three or four maybe
but they were all from different places like……parents
died or something happened…then they just had to go in there
you know…..
DC:
And did the mix with the rest of the school children?
MC:
Oh yea they did alright
Interruption
MC:
Outside the gates of misery, no more Irish, no more French are
sitting on the orphanage bench…kick up tables…I missed
a line there but I will continue on first and then I’ll tell
you ….kick up table kick up chairs….kick Sister Anthony
down the stairs ….if Sr. Brendan interferes ….knock her
down and box her ears…..
DC:
Where should we be this time next year outside the gates of
misery, no more Irish, no more French are sitting on the
orphanage bench…
MC:
Bye Bye orphans….kick up tables kick up chairs ….have
you got that? …oh heavens….kick Sr. Brendan down
the stairs….
DC:
Sr. Anthony down the stairs …..
MC:
If Sr. Brendan interferes knock her down and box her
ears…..well you see it was somebody in the ordinary school
that wrote this and its in it ….bye bye orphans …put
that in front of ……
DC:
kick up tables…..kick up chairs…so bye bye orphans
…..That’s a great rhyme.
MC:
Some young one in the school thought of that herself….
DC:
Its very witty…..it’s very funny….you did well to
remember it after all these years
MC:
I never forgot it cause we were chanting it for several times
when you would be getting holidays….They were good days
really….you know….There was manners put on you then
…..if you did that with them now ….you would be in
trouble and a good slap never harmed anybody…..you know the
old saying …”spare the rod and spoil the
child”….
DC:
You have scene some big changes in your life in Kells all over
the years….when you left school ….would you say a
little about your working life ….you worked in a shop for a
while….
MC:
Down in Carroll’s…..I was in it for 6 or 7
years….there was hell in the house here because I hated
school and when I wanted to go into shop life…..they
didn’t want it at all….my father wanted something
better….but I wasn’t going to spend it on
persecution…..I had an aunt a nun and when she heard she
blew her top altogether ….that she never thought her niece
of hers would go and settle for something like that she thought I
would do better … for once I pleased myself and I was quit
happy in what I was doing and that’s it.
DC:
You were right…..and how, was it working in
Carroll’s…was it still Carroll’s before it was
Robert Hughes …was it still Carroll’s….
MC:
It was Carroll’s….Robert Hughes father was the manager
of it
DC:
So I believe and that’s how, he come to have it.
MC:
It was left to George…you know…I got on very well with
George, and I can remember one time the boss…Mr Carroll
asked me to get him a few things to bring home… like in a
box ….he lived out in Moynalty……..and in the lot
of groceries he wanted shaving cream…I got all ready and put
it in the box gave it to him …he brought it out to the
car…..we came in on Monday and he had this tube of
stuff…..I seen him coming in with it ….he said I would
be a long time trying to shave with that….toothpaste I gave
him….I picked up the wrong one….they were all on the
shelve and I just wasn’t minding what I was doing and picked
it up and gave it to him…the poor man had no shaving
cream….he was a …..you went in the Wednesday after
Christmas to stock take……you got no extra money for
that…..you weren’t paid for your day that everybody
else was off and you were in to stock take…..he was a mean
man that way like……he would get the last out of you
….nine o clock on a Saturday evening when we would close and
half six every other day…..there was one particular woman
used to come in always last on a Saturday night….and she
would be in Nultys who used to sell the papers ….there was
two old ladies ….two sisters and the sold papers like a
newsagents ….and when she would see the shop being
closed…you know getting the shutters up in the window and
all this type of thing …..she would come over to get her
week’s groceries and she would want rashers and ham and
everything…..and the machines were cleaned at that stage and
when they would see her coming three or four of them would
skip…..I remember one night I was the only one left and
George the boss and the others went and she came in she wanted
ham and she wanted brawn I think and rashers and something like
that…ten o` clock I got out after serving her because he had
to stay and clean the machines ….with the salt it would
destroy the wheel of the thing…..so George told the boss the
next day ..well on Monday, about this woman coming over at 9 o
clock to get her messages……well George told him in good
faith……George thought he would have a
solution……he had a good solution as and from next
Saturday night we close at half nine …we had another half an
hour and no extra money for it or anything…..so I’m
telling you when she was coming in she got an awful few cold
shoulders on different times and kind of got the message then and
she would be in with ten minuets to the time but otherwise when
we were closing she would come in…..you know…..
DC:
She was trying to push you to the limits of your
endurance……as far as you could go…..
MC:
It wasn’t fair on all the staff……you know after a
hard day and everything had to be weighed….in those days
….very few packet stuff or anything……you had to
fill it and weigh it and tie it up …..you know…they
showed us a way….you know when you see a big bag of
stuff……you would always see a big piece of twine and
they would tie it and it wouldn’t open……but if we
were putting a stone of flour in a bag…..that much twine
would do it and that is hard to believe… but it was a fold
down….you push it down like that ….you see….and
you got your twine and you put it in there …..and then tie
it on the top……no matter how you bang it on the counter
it would never open…that much twine would do you…the
length of that….and a little bit extra to tie it ….you
know…..that’s the way we had to do it ….the boss
often came…when you were after weighing and stuff he
would come and check it after …I remember one day there was
a new boy brought in and he weighed stuff after him and over 12
packets of stuff…..a quarter pound of weight he was giving
more…..it was always heavy ….so he was called up over
that ….they kept an eye on him…..if he lost a quarter
pound in every ten bags ….it was a lot.
DC:
It would add up.
MC:
You know……that’s the way he went …..
DC:
So life for workers was quite hard…there was long hours
…you didn’t have that many rights.
MC:
I worked in it for a whole year for nothing….to get into
Carroll’s at the time; it was the place to get into….he
had a very big clientele going in …..Ya know, very posh and
some of them were lovely people….and some of them were
devils coming in….they really showed their authority
…..your only a shop assistant and I’m Mrs such a
one…..like that type of thing…..there was some of them
lovely people….you couldn’t wish for anything nicer but
….I remember refusing to do one thing a certain man came in,
a big shot too……and he said I have bottles in the car I
want them brought in….so Mr Carroll said May he said go out
and bring the bottles in from Mr Such and such’s
car……I went out and there was a big basket like a big
tub …you know there was two handles and when I saw it was
full of bottles …..and I said well I cant lift that…I
couldn’t even get it out of the car and I just came back in
and Mr Carroll said did you bring in the bottles and I said No Mr
Carroll I didn’t because I couldn’t lift the basket and
I’m not bringing them in….so he sent out one of the
boys and it took him all his time to lift it...the thing was that
full…..that was the type ….you had to bring the stuff
out for them and put it in the car and even then like that you
had to go out and empty it and bring them in….you know.
DC:
You were at their beck and call…..do you think there was
much class distinction in Kells? Did the upper class sort of look
down on the lower classes
MC:
Ah yeah there was ….there was plenty of that you
know…..plenty of it but they …..as I said some of them
were lovely people …I was very fond of three or four of them
but there was two I used to hate to see them coming in…..in
the heel of the hunt…they were broke, they were working at
someone else’s money at the time…. He ran a
yearly bill with some of them and when they would be paying the
yearly bill ….they would want a big reduction when they were
paying the bill…and their would be people coming in paying
the bill with big families and paying as much and paying weekly
and they never got a penny off their bill….you know that
type of thing.
DC:
So you saw it all…..do then after Carroll’s what did
you do? After you finished in Carroll’s
MC:
I started myself…..
DC:
In your own little shop.
MC:
Work never started until then….my father didn’t want me
in any account to start on my own……he said you have to
think long and hard about this and he said the boy and the girl
can put there hand out for a weeks wages doesn’t know how
lucky they are, and how true he was to a point
……..there was Saturday’s I came home and my head
was splitting with worry …where was I going to get the money
to pay for stuff…but it kinda came then …whipped
Ice-cream was started then…it was on the go and I wanted a
machine….the machine at that stage …the first one I got
was about £4,000 at the time and sure….the man nearly went
off his head when I gave him the price….but an uncle of mine
stood to me to get the loan of four and I got it….
DC:
Guarantee.
MC:
I had it paid back in a year with the Ice-cream ….from now,
meeting people and all the first thing the say “May your
ice-cream we never got anything like it” …..it
was the type of stuff …there was two ice-creams you could
buy….there was a cheap one and a dear one…..the cheap
one was £4.00 a gallon and it came in a plastic bag, in a lovely
cardboard….real strong cardboard box…all you had to do
was cut the top of it and pour it into the machine…..now
that was four pounds a box and the other one was £7.00 and I
bought the seven…one traveller said May your mad …..hot
weather they wont appreciate good stuff they would take
anything….I said no I had that in my mind that I want the
best….and I couldn’t keep it going I was that busy with
it ….I sold more Ice-cream than a big shop in Dublin and
everyone says May your Ice-cream nobody ever came up to
it…..but that is why I bought the dear one…..and I sold
ten times more of it than I would have on the cheaper one…..
DC:
So you became famous for your ice-cream….
MC:
I remember when the Pope was coming to Dublin and we were up in
the Phoenix Park, before seven o clock in the morning and we met
this man and he said …ha ha that would be a very cold
morning for an Ice-cream…..and he was a steward up there and
I never remember seeing the man in my life before but he knew
us…..
DC:
He knew of you…..
MC:
there was a lot of men from Dublin who used to go fishing and
they would come down to Lough Leane and Lough Sheelan…..they
would come in to us at night when they would be going down
to get fresh bread and milk for the weekend and all…..it was
probably maybe one of them….
DC:
He knew you and you didn’t know him ….that kind of way.
MC:
Yeah and apart from that to I used to sell Valentine
cards….Id go in a big way to Valentines….we had big
ones and they were called puppets and they were musical and you
would never break them……they would never break except
you broke them it was a wind….and you know if you were
gentle with the wind...it would never break….I think at that
stage they were £8.00 each the cards….but they stood about
that size……I remember when a man came in and he was a
vet…..he asked how much were the valentines cards and Philo
was showing them to him…that was my sister…..we had
little ones right up to the very big ones and he said how much
was those and he pointed to them …..because they were eye
catching ones…..they were lovely really……and Philo
said £8.00…….£8.00 he said you would hire a band for
less than that…..and Philo said it’s a good job there
is not too many like you said she….or they wouldn’t
need to manufacture them…..well she stuck him to the
ground……..another fellow came in and he bought a
card….not a big one ….you know in-between ….it was
around the five…and when he posted it wasn’t there a
postal strike…..and he persecuted us, he came back to know
what he could do…..she didn’t get the card ….I
said sure what can we do abut it…you posted it …but he
had us persecuted he really thought that we would give him the
money back….because the card was mislaid…so I
don’t know whether she ever got it.
DC:
She probably didn’t…..she had probably gone off him by
that stage anyway…he probably did her no good….
MC:
Then I had Easter eggs from six old pence to £80.00…..and
we sold every one of them (May shows Danny a picture from 1984 of
all the Easter eggs she sold in her shop) …when the
different seasons would come I would always turn that part of the
shop into what the season wanted…you know like Easter,
Christmas, Valentines…all the special things went in there
….now these were (referring to photograph) the six penny
ones on the ground and these were all the big eggs
……that one is much the same as well…..
DC:
It’s great you have a photograph to record it…..
MC:
That’s a close up of one corner taken by
myself……that’s a little one she would always be in
the shop…..when there was Waster eggs she would be in her
glory in the middle of them you know….we had big baskets
like (referring to photograph)
DC:
A big chocolate face on the young one too……there she is
again
MC:
You see there was s big toy with it…….
DC:
Its bigger than her!…the Easter egg is nearly as big as her.
MC:
That’s just a repeat I took and that’s a few of
myself….do you see that there (referring to photograph)
DC:
Where is that ….is that in
MC:
No, in
DC:
Is that what is.
MC:
And when you would be finishing at night them streets were
bare….and when you get up the next morning they would be
like that….there are all petals look…..
DC:
It was like a floral tribute ……
MC:
But you weren’t allowed walk on it ….
DC:
No you couldn’t.
MC:
DC:
Corpus Christy in June.
MC:
you were allowed…..there was little stepladders up
….you could stand on them and take the photograph but you
weren’t allowed to walk…..you would see them all here
and they wouldn’t dare walk on them….
DC:
It’s lovely…….so you had a little holiday…a
little trip
MC:
Ah now….well Helen and myself used to go every year on a
holiday…
DC:
Did you….its great to have those……Remind me May, cause
I’m new to Kells….where exactly was your shop.
MC:
Do you know where the butcher is here in
DC:
Doherty’s……oh is that where it was…..
MC:
Seven owners from when I sold it…..
DC:
Is that right…and when did you give it up or when did you
sell it roughly…..a good few years ago ….was it?
MC:
My brother died suddenly in ’82 and kind of the bottom fell
out of everything….he died suddenly on his way to Navan in
the car….it took then half the day to break the news to
us….they came and told us he had a little turn and I wanted
to go up and see him in Navan…..no no you cant…..years
ago …..but it took them about half a day to tell us…to
get the message across….I was very unsettled after that
because he used to do the VAT for me and he used to price stuff
and when he died ….there was two of us left and if anything
happened one or the others….you would never manage you
know…I had it in my mind then I’m going to
sell….and then unfortunately I started wool…and that
was the greatest mistake of all……it really was
…….
DC:
So you gave it up around 1982 or soon after that…
MC:
Ay… (Shows Danny another photo) That was Gladys and I
at badminton….
DC:
So you’re involved in the badminton club as well? Amongst
other things in Kells.
MC:
(May shows Danny a different photo) this must have been….I
found ….Kells football team the time they won the
championship.
DC:
There is no date on the back….
MC:
He was always at me to date something.
DC:
It’s a must…
MC:
He was always at me over it….but sure …..
DC:
You would always be able to work it out but it makes life easier
when they are dated……
MC:
This one is dated 1966…that’s a cousin of mine...he
taught down in the Community school…
DC:
Not PJ Caffrey.
MC:
No…my mothers side of the family he is Garry….
DC:
If there was another book was done on Kells ….we could get a
loan of some of them ….a copy of some of those photos cause
you have a great collection ….
MC:
They brought out a lovely book at one stage about
DC:
I have seen it…..
MC;
And… the nun that was over that Sr. Benignus, she died there
just the month or so before Christmas.
DC:
She was a big age 95 or so…
MC:
95/96 I don’t know which and her mind was as clear then as
it was when she was a young nun….she had a wonderful brain
altogether you know…..
DC:
Big into Maths I believe … A great teacher.
MC:
She really was you know…a lot of them they were very
dedicated in what they did …..they wanted perfection all of
the time and that type….she helped young ones that were you
know a little bit backward and she took them out of hours and
gave them grinds and all…..you know they wouldn’t do it
now ….they would not….
DC:
Out and above the call of duty…..I believe you’re a
great woman for the GAA you were at the Meath / Cavan final in
1949…..
MC:
1949 that was the first time I was in Croke Park and I went with
my father and Benny and his girlfriend and in those days you
didn’t book your seat you paid at the gate and you had to
queue for hours but we were queuing for hours and I saw the boys
gong in with stretchers you know……a couple of them and
I saw the gate open ….in those days there was a sideline in
Croke Park ….you know what a sideline is….you were
sitting beside the pitch…….
DC:
I do….I do….
MC:
They pitch was slightly bumpy but I got in …..Benny said to
me how did you get in there and I told him and he said
…thousands at it and my first time in Croke Park and I did
this …….and I didn’t know anything better of the
danger …and didn’t he wait and when we were coming back
out with other things ….didn’t he just slip in and got
in as well….and my father was left with the flasks of tea
and the sandwiches….and got a place in Croke Park and
we had ringside seats for it …..you know by getting in there
and it cost nothing extra…..but he gave out ….we had
nothing to eat….and I remember we were sitting beside two
Kerry men and they were eating …….do you know the
cheese…… cheddar….they were eating the cheddar
cheese like you would eat an apple……they shared some of
it with my brother …..I wouldn’t eat it of course and
they had minerals…..I took the mineral alright…but that
is what kept us going for the whole day…..we left here at 6
o clock in the morning and trying to get into the game and it not
till 3 o clock and nothing to eat but it was our own
fault…….it was worth it…the first time
ever…..I think Benny had a baby Ford at the time and I think
6 of us went in the Baby Ford…we were smothered going
up….but it got us there and back alright…..
DC:
You remember that big occasion and have you followed the GAA
since….the Meath team …..
MC:
Oh yeah …hurling preferable to Football…….
DC:
You prefer hurling to Football.
MC:
I love hurling…..I suppose cause I played camogie you
know….something like that there was a lot of them around
that time…..the girls played camogie and they liked their
hurling after that …it’s a far better game than
football….
DC:
It’s supposed to be the 2nd fastest game on earth
after Ice Hockey…..its spectacular to watch.
MC:
When the ball is hit probably it reaches speeds of 70 mile an
hour….and I remember one time hitting it and it hit a girl
on the shin ….and you would just think ……just like
that you could see it cutting down the shin….and the awful
stitching around it ….to catch a hurling ball going fast it
would break your hand…you would have to be very
……skilful at it ….
DC:
Absolutely…
MC:
Again my brother always maintained …..people would always
say it’s a very dangerous game…...its not….he
maintained when you get an injury playing hurling it’s a
open cut and it can be attended to there and then or a couple of
days after it….but in football a kick in the small of the
back and kick in the kidneys and it could come again you for six
months….you know but the hurling can be dealt with there and
then …..you can here the shins…you know you could hear
them hitting and if it connects with a fellow you can hear it
like…..there was a very funny one there about three years
ago ….a referee, I saw it on telly and Meath wasn’t
playing in it….but he threw in the ball….and do you
know when the throw in the ball they swipe to get at it
…..It cut the legs of him….he didn’t stand far
enough back…like you know he went down…you know…he
was alright after a while…..to think a belt of a
Hurley….and then to when you are warm you don’t feel it
as much…the referee was only starting the game ….but
its his own fault he stood in to near…
DC:
He copped it…yeah….would you have gone to many games
Gael Colmcille.
MC:
No not really.
DC:
More the bigger.
MC:
Because there is a reason I don’t follow the club
stuff…..my brother was in that and he was secretary of the
Meath minors board for I don’t know how many
years……there was a presentation over in the Gaelic
Centre of a young fellow who won a Handball All Ireland…and
they were having a night out for him over there and Benny was at
it and to discover that there was none of the Gael Colmcille
players present at the presentation and he got up and gave his
spiff and said it wasn’t every day or even every year that a
young fellow brought an All Ireland to the town …handball
….and he kindly said it was a disgrace that the club
wasn’t represented ….to honour the young fellow and
all…..I wasn’t at it but I believe that he gave a great
spiff about it……but two days later he got a letter
banning him from Gael Colmcille because he dared to speak out
like he did about them….and I said to hell with them …I
wont support them and I didn’t …..maybe I
shouldn’t have but I was very sore about it as well
….they should have had somebody out of the club representing
the club on the presentation of the young fellow the All Ireland
Medal…..and then they got thick…I think they banned him
for six weeks or something….and said he couldn’t go
over……so after that I just didn’t follow them
….you know.
DC:
You turned your back on them…
MC:
Well I go to all the ….
DC:
Big games.
MC:
The ones I can get a ticket for….the chap in the town gets
me one…..he never ever ….let us town….the two of
us, he gave us tickets all the time…then I go to the hurling
ones myself..
DC:
In
MC:
Oh anywhere……
DC:
Anywhere where there is a good hurling game……
MC:
I have a little mark there on my forehead where I was opening the
car door…I was opening it in PortLaoise….and
didn’t I open the car door and didn’t I bang it and it
was…thought I forgot something…I was half in and half
out and it just ripped me there ….so a man I know brought me
and said come on there is only a few of us left …..I’ll
have to see to you….and he brought me into the Meath
dressing room where all the fellows were and there was a nurse
there and she dollied it up…..it could have done with two
stitches….like do you know the very top of the car
door….oh will I ever forget it….so I have that as a
reminder of the day …..
DC:
A little memento…..of the occasion……its not that
obvious but it’s a little memento….I don’t want to
tire you out ….but just one last thing…you have lived
all your life in Suffolk street…obviously a lot of people
have come and gone and houses have changed ..so would you just
talk for a couple of moments about Suffolk street down through
the years …perhaps the different people who have come and
gone…..any changes you have noticed…
MC:
There was a Cinema in Suffolk Street….it was a very busy
little street all the time….I’ll tell you a funny one
when I’m finished with this but you had to go when you were
going to the railway….that was the main way of going to the
Christian Brothers…..going to the Tech...going to the shoe
factory….this street was very busy…….very busy
street always…..turn off this And I will tell you the one
about ….they were in the Christian brothers do you see and
there was religious instructions going on ….when this young
fellow came in and he was late ….and the priest said to
him…well ? who died on the Cross….he said I don’t
know father I came by Cannon Street…..because the Cross
(Cross of Kells) was below he went to school…..he could have
came down by the Cross and it was a straight run over from the
bull ring as they call it…..and he could have gone down that
way…and straight..but he used to come down Cannon
street……it was a little bit long and …and said he
I don’t know Father I came by Cannon Street…he was just
asking the question at the wrong time…but that actually did
happen…you know the young fellow….I suppose when
something is pounced on you like that you know…..
DC:
So he just wasn’t trying to be funny he ….
MC:
The priest was talking about our Lord …and the other fellow
took it as someone was after dying on his way down to
school…..there is lots of houses…there used to be a
forge over here
DC:
I didn’t know …just opposite…that would have done
a big trade at one time……with all the horses and
carts…
MC:
There was three blacksmiths in Kells at a time…do you know
where Centra is now.
DC:
Yes.
MC:
That was Bartle Fitzsimons forge there…then Pa Gibney had
this one over here …..then there was Tevlin’s in
DC:
Is there any other interesting business or trades….that have
gone disappeared….the forge the cinema….
MC:
There was a shoe maker up the top of the street…..John
Mallon …he did very well and then of course Jim Clarke the
Photographer….the son…his daughter was married to ?? and
there son is still there …..but he doesn’t take
photographs ..he only trims down what the mother takes you know
that type of thing….puts them in albums and all like
that…..
DC:
And would there be any other families like yourself who lived in
the street all of their lives…..
MC:
There was one down in the bottom, Nellie Mc Cormack…..Cella
Cummins was born and reared in Suffolk Street but she married and
went up the other end of the town and then when her parents died
she came back ….lets see now was there anybody
else…funny when you say that….Geraghty’s are down
there ….they were born and reared in the street too as
well…….looking back very few of the older ….of no
relation is in that whole far side of the street…..they are
all different from what I remember you know….
DC:
Big changes over the years and people have come and gone …..with
the exceptions of Geraghty’s …and there is a Clarke
below where Jim Carolan the Councillor was born…....down at
the end of the street…there was obviously Carolans there at
one stage……
MC:
I don’t know really….I just remember them like you
know...and whether they were there all there life…I
don’t know really…
DC:
They are gone now anyway…..
MC:
Now I’m trying to think down along …..Oh, Bob Bell he
was born and reared in this street as well…..
DC:
You have seen some big changes in the street and in the town
during your life….
MC:
Oh I did …it’s a different lifestyle altogether ...well
naturally….you could go out and leave your front door open
……and nothing you know would ever happen ....nobody
would do any damage to anybody …..I saw in the chronicle
where there was a bus taken in Kells and burnt out in Girley
bog……
DC:
Yeah Oliver Usher found it going for his Sunday walk …they
had some temerity to do that.
MC:
Yeah like the amount of money that …and they think
that’s funny….
DC:
That’s not funny…..
MC:
But sure however I always maintain they will have to answer for
some things some day…
DC:
They will …..Gurriers… and they ruined the bog or part
of the bog or the trail anyway…it’s a lovely
spot…I walk out there myself…..
MC:
that’s where an uncle of mine used to cut
turf……out at the bog….many’s a summer I
stayed on the bog and the best tan I ever got was bog tan…..
DC:
From the heat …from the sun……so you did a stint
cutting turf out on the bog…
MC:
Yeah, I know how you cut it and throw it up to the man and he
foots it ….and there is a name on the next thing they
do…..and then they clamp it…there’s three
…they spread it ….they turn it then ….the get it
up and put it in little …..what do they call it
foot…like that about four sods and when it is dry enough
then they take it up and they build a clamp…..the longer and
the higher it is the better…I remember all that right
enough…and then going and bringing it home…drawing it
home….
DC:
So you have a bit of experience of that life in the
countryside…as well as the town…in those days we had
the trains...we had the buses…we still had lovely ponies and
traps going around ...you had the best of both worlds….you
were moving into modern society yet you had the older one.
DC:
You had a good blend of both where as now you have moved too far
in one direction…
MC:
Exactly…no it was good…it really was…
DC:
And did you use the cinema much below….
MC:
We weren’t allowed….we were allowed the matinee on a
Sunday and if you didn’t go to the matinee you couldn’t
ask to go during the week because you weren’t allowed go
…and that’s all that was to it…….and in those
days when parents said no they meant no….I would have went
every night if I got the chance….
DC:
There is a Tommy Morris living in
MC:
There is a house between he and us…well he originally lived
in Church lane…
DC:
Is that where he is from…
MC:
I’m not sure actually I don’t know whether he was born
out in Rosmeen or not…..the father had a farm out
there…then came into the town…and then he married Mary
out here….
DC:
I did send him a letter a while back I might follow up on him
and see has he a few things to tell me as well…..
MC:
He might be able to remember better than I would…its only
little bits of things that is coming back ……
DC:
You have done very well….very well……I sent Mary
Rogers a letter too…Kitty McEntee explained to me she is
quite deaf.
MC:
Very deaf…..
DC:
She said the best way would be to go through Paddy Rogers the
son…and see if we could organise something that way…
MC:
She would be real interesting too……but then she
wasn’t born in
DC:
Was she…..
MC:
I cant remember ….she was a nun for a while….you
know……she was in the convent ….she left it
….I don’t know how long ….now she told me that
herself but I don’t know how long she was in it or whether
she went to be professed….don’t think she went as far
at that ….and then she came out and she was working in the
town here for somebody ….and Jimmy Rogers the bread man she
married ……
DC:
Down in Headfort place for a while…were they? Is that
where they were…someone told me they were…
MC:
Well I don’t know really……
DC:
So she had been the street for a while….
MC:
She is 98 this year….she is a marvellous woman….and she
does her own baking and she has two dogs and I don’t know
how many cats she has ….she feeds Paul Murphy’s dog as
well….she calls it “Murphy”, when our two are
going for a walk down the street, there is a little gate between
her house and Paul’s house….oh the whole town knows
when I’m going for a walk ….they kick up such a racket
to get your man to bark out…you see…..she has a great
outlook on things …..
DC:
Has she…..
MC:
Beautiful skin not a blotch on it…she is going a little bit
stooped now…in the last couple of years but other than that
now ……she worked hard all her life…you know…
DC:
And she has lived to be 98 so she has obviously lead a good life,
a healthy life …
MC:
Exactly…
DC:
I’ll talk to Paddy, and see what is the best way to talk to
her…..
MC:
It will be hard on you…… you know……
DC:
Cause she is a bit deaf…..I might have to write out some
questions for Paddy and he might have to ask them or do it
somehow like that or get around it
MC:
I think she worked with Lacys….the solicitors she worked in
the house there….I don’t think she worked anywhere
else, Id say that ….I could be very wrong now….cause I
didn’t know her until she came to Suffolk Street…you
know…she was a good woman….her brothers got
sick…she brought them all in and minded them before they
died….and a man called Charlie……Charlie….I
have to tell the storey and I don’t know the name….but
he worked in Fitzsimons years ago this Charlie….the name
might come back to me and when he got sick …she minded him
as well…and he no relation to her or anything like that at
all…Charlie….no its gone….
DC:
it’s gone out of your head….
MC:
No she was good like that ….you know she was a good natured
woman and she had only one of a family and he turned out very
well….you know…..
DC:
The solicitor…..that’s great you know you have told be
quiet a lot May in the hour or so…you have done well…..
MC:
School was hard in those days I really enjoyed it …..I
didn’t like to study …
DC:
And you had the pressure of the Leaving certificate hanging over
your head…
MC:
That’s why I wouldn’t do it….Benny, Lord have
Mercy on him…he was going great at it …you know
…..he was really very good he was a great man at the Maths
and things like that too…..and then that cousin…..it
kind of ran in that end of the family….like you know but I
wasn’t interested at all in school…I had no time for
it…..I couldn’t …..I don’t know wheat it was
I just wouldn’t bother ….lazy…..
DC:
But you have no regrets anyway….
MC:
No not one I would do the same again
DC:
Of course you would……so if there is any last thing you
want to say your welcome and if you forget something and you
remember it later sure we can always……I can always talk
to you again. I’ll knock it off then…..
